I was opposed to this since the beginning. you guys told me to get replay, here is the replay. http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/200207in this game, kyubey, is lost. dead at hand, he terraform himself below water and escape, then resurrect the star dust to kill enemy with no retribution. then created a massive wreck field around him, resurrect all of that, terraform himself up, then lead the resurrected army to enemy gate, block a HLT with terraform build defense behind terraform wall, enemy have to flatten the wall with terraform which is BUILD POWER WAR which I predicted and I supposed we all hate. Kyubey, also did an other underwater escape [not really helpful or relevant] There are many more battle that was ruined by terraform, I got 1 battle which my force is on the beach to their back base, and the enemy just terraform the wall that BLOCK THE WHOLE BEACH. when I Terraform that wall down, he terraform ANOTHER WALL, I even try seismic missile, doesn't work. this low terraform cost is Madness. http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/196136I suggest that terraform cost is higher or at least higher build time. if you want a simple quick wall, make it a destructible building
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lol silly sortale, you can just make spiderfac and spam recluse!!! teraform is really hard to do, not the least due to the hard to use interface and be glad that its like that or a troll like me would just greeble the whole map :P and my map deformation program wasnt that bad...  this was once trololo
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No, terraform is not at all hard to do. Just the fact that the ui is "powerful" (read: hard to get into :P) doesn't mean it's hard to use. Raise -> draw line -> move mouse a few pixels up -> there's your wall.
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yeah, but this game is not about terraforming, so regardless of how hard it is, you should not be able to exploit it to win against good strategy. cuz you are suggesting that we have to have mastery of terraforming to fight against terraforming player (could lead to build power war). but it's hard enough to fight normally, forcing terraforming on to people is bad. it's like a race car with jet engine, hard to control but boost too much. and it break the game especially with broken pathing. bottomline, terraforming is a nice feature, but it cost too little time and metal but it cannot be effectively counter without resorting to build power war which is bad. cuz if you suggest that we build recluse, on the beach to cross that wall, it would not be able to go anywhere else, and in your case, it could not attack under water either [you hide com under water]. I have no problem with lol game (lol game after all) terra form can cost whatever price there. but I am talking about mainstream team game.
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@sortale you dont quite grasp the concept of strategy do you? teraform is a strategy, a teraform strategy... http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bulwarkgo look them up IRL teraform
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my main point is that it is OP and almost uncounterable unless we engage in build power war which is bad, therefore it need to be nerf. side point, none of realife strategy involved digging yourself under water. or digging dirt out of enemy feet as they are PASSING [not before]. nor is there building wall in front of enemy machine gun [out range yes , in range, no]
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nah.. terraform is fine. its costs metal.. a lot
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Nanolathe is a stupid model, Support commander has too much build range and Rez Module breaks the game.
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lol :P low blood presure?
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terraform is a unique feature i adore about ZK. do NOT touch this awesomeness. it was the reason i moved from SC2 to here (+ SC2 is too stressy) and still am.
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I think the only reason we don't see more of this is that the terraform UI is so different from the normal build UI. I remember back when terraforming was just blocks earth placed using normal building (which was far buggier so I see why they threw it out) terraform was much more heavily used. I keep meaning to look into creating a "simplified" TF UI gadget. But if it was easier, there would be more people abusing it. Likely terra will eventually need a nerf not in cost-per-deformation, but something that prevents its use in-combat. Like a destroyable delay-object that is built as the terra completes and can be blown up to prevent it from materializing.
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i have to agree with mojjj, tera is a great feature, and if you actualy look how much it costs its already balanced... and really have you seen anyone other then me burying HLT for great profit? if you can not do the same with beneficial effects...
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quote:
destroyable delay-object that is built as the terra completes and can be blown up to prevent it from materializing. |
I fairly like that idea.
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wouldnt that make teraform totaly usless? and wouldnt that be a nerf to spiders, who can use teraform for great win? you know there are implications to neonstormig idead that are not so brilliant... also read this... http://www.wtfrontier.com/?p=400really some people are actively working to make the game less fun to play
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  Kyubey - how would terra be useless that way? All it would mean is that you'd have to wait a second between the terra being completed and it materializing (and the terra would be vulnerable to projectiles during that time) which would mean that terra was still useful for bridge and base-building and whatnot but not as an in-combat weapon/defense. You can build a wall to defend your buildings, you just can't build a wall while your buildings are under fire. Either way, I was just throwing it out as one of many possible approaches. Basically, the idea that terra was never meant to be a combat-power (except for the Quake missile and things like that, of course).
+1 / -0
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consider this, where is tera usualy used (by non noobs) i dont think i have ever build a bridge... seismic work much beter at that kind of thing... basicaly why would you build tera outside of combat unless you are making a roach cannon? removing tera is basicly chopping of a chunk of the game mechanics, just because some people don't like them being used against them...
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quote:
basicaly why would you build tera outside of combat |
Like, always? Passages for your units/impassable areas for your enemy, walling off singus/mohos/etc., famous roach launchers, creating space for buildings (e.g. stardust on rough mountaintop or hole for singu)... If you are solely using terraform in combat, you are 1) missing out on a lot of possible uses and 2) making people hate it because the only counter is, well counter-terraform. This is exactly the "exploit until nerfed" behavior that is encouraged to get broken things fixed. Burying units and blocking enemy fire are things that are under consideration of being exploitable for a long time. Without people actually (heavily) abusing it, nothing changes.
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How about fixing the Quake as an anti-terraform weapon? Currently it can't do much.
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I've always been a big advocate of having terraform be a unit with a hitbox, like the old terraform was, so it can be shot at. The way the old terraform would degrade as it was shot was awesome, the only bad part was when the terraform finished the unit disappeared. The problem is we start bumping up against the unit limit doing this.
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