eco means economical right? thats means 1 commander dedicated to make energy, electric grid, metals ex. and then they support their friends factory + repair wounded unit with their caretakers.Not only that, their cons must take the enemy scrap/wreck every time. their jobs is not going to war, but to boosting thier metal income rated, settle defence and repair mostly. (only work in comunism mode) i want to try to be eco strategy.(work for 4vs4)
+0 / -0
|
Speaking competitively... Building energy structures and grid is somthing every player should do throughout the game, initially quickly to ensure all metal income can be spent (not energy stalling) and later slowly alongside production to ensure your economy scales up as unit density increases. Only in huge, low player skill teamgames should you ever consider doing nothing but building economy structures, and even then you are probably being a useless teammate and letting your allies get hammered. This is not a good idea in anything smaller than 6v6 or on a very porcy map.
+5 / -0
|
For normal games: what IK said. For low-skill porcy clusterfucks: build basic energy because energy is not shared. Later on some nub will inevitably spam fusion/singu so you don't need to worry because energy is shared.
+0 / -0
|
As it is with everything, you need to find the right balance. If the enemy team plays defensive, an economical strategy will pay off. If they play aggressive, you will get overrun. So it is best to adapt your strategy to the enemy's strategy. Something like this: raid where there is no defense, defend with units+defense, reclaim, spend metal on barely enough defense/units to protect your eco, on which you spend the rest, once you have an eco advantage, you will win anyway.
+0 / -0
|
The designated role of 'eco' is interesting. On one hand, it seems to majorly let your team down by not providing any troops -> giving opponents map control and the mex that comes with it. On the other hand, you've got a perfect example of someone (@nyararan) who got to 1900 team elo pretty much entirely through ecoing for his team. I think that there's no room for a dedicated eco role in highly competent teams, but when you're playing with a bunch of no-eco ham or porc lords, there is a hole in your team's strategy that needs filling, so ecoing is a great thing to do. Most big teams players fit this description -> ecoing for your team is quite appropriate and will gain you elo often, particularly if you were low elo to begin with.
+0 / -0
|
i cannot fiddle out the quote, but someone wise once said: do not try to make your eco grow faster than the enemies, try to make their eco grow slower than yours. (that is, by attacking)doing eco right from game start is useless, silly and harms your team. period. dont be that person. watch games yourself, when one team right tries to plop singu. overdrive is useless when there are free mexes. compare team incomes. i have no battle link at hand, but i analysed this some time ago. team 1 does no ecoing, gets 2/3 of the map/mexes, team 2 gets 1/3 of the map/mexes and a singu. team 1 has 150% income over team 2. just the plain facts. the initial goal shall be to cover 50% of the map, make minimal energy to match your metal income. with each mex, new metal income is added, adjust energy accordingly. at some point, the map is owned by both teams. connect grid on the way intelligently while capturing mexes. till then, you have statistically no disadvantages to the other team. THEN, you can choose to increase your eco by overdrive, or do something useful like attacking or assisting teammates on their front. EVERY single metal, which is invested into eco, is missing in battle units and MIGHT pay back, but minutes later. attacking gives you also metal in the reclaim of the killed units (on both sides). this reclaim, you leave to the other team if you dont engage the enemy. expanding gives you mexes and denies the enemy mexes, so the income difference (with 2 teams ) is doubled. you might find som more (unrelated) wisdom here
+3 / -0
|
|
|
quote:
doing eco right from game start is useless, silly and harms your team. period. dont be that person. |
Yeah right.. that's totally why all the top 10 players do just that in half their games or more, while nubs rush LLTs and radars before building even a single mex, let alone plop their factory. quote:
EVERY single metal, which is invested into eco, is missing in battle units and MIGHT pay back, but minutes later |
Actually, on most maps mexes pay back in less than a minute. Energy sources can too, especially the cost efficient ones, sometimes...  Anyway    hellatze, just make sure not to stall energy after rushing for all the mexes on CCR and you should be fine.
+1 / -0
|
I think he's talking more about overdrive. Making mex is almost always good and I don't think anyone contests that. Edit: I don't think anyone in this thread contests that.
+0 / -0
|
quote:
Yeah right.. that's totally why all the top 10 players do just that [build nothing but eco] in half their games or more, while nubs rush LLTs and radars before building even a single mex, let alone plop their factory. |
The top 10 team game players near exclusively play 10v10+ noobcluster games with new players on far-too-small maps... using that as your postulate for optimal play is like suggesting that the average obese male in the US is fitter than Usain Bolt on the basis they can eat a cheeseburger faster.
+0 / -0
|
for Skasi ecoing = investment in energy buildings and grid for the sole purpose of overdrive. not playing silly = doing everything else, including taking territory and free mexes thats at least my understanding
+0 / -0
|
Um no, for me ecoing means increasing resource income not counting wreck-reclaim. "investing in grid for the sole purpose of OD" is overrated if you ask me. Oftentimes people would just be better off balancing grids, or connecting them with energy structures they need/want to build anyway. I see people placing "ZOMG CONNECT WTF NOOB" markers (and less extreme versions) for no reason whatsoever, or spamming pylons while grids are purple-blue-ish.    [GBC]1v0ry_k1ng, you should watch 1v1 and 2v2 tournament (semi)finals. I'm not talking about 10v10s at all.
+0 / -0
|
actually making enemy mex slower than your sometimes killing you. let say you want to expand and raid enemy base (attacking), 5 glaive. you only suceeded for destroying 1 solar and mexes, if the cons reclaim the metal you will be screwed. not a good strategy for constant riaiding while enemy team have scavenger around.
+0 / -0
|
thats indeed right! if you dont play, you cannot lose! awesomeful!
+0 / -0
|
So don't go there. Instead, camp around their base so any constructors who leave undefended get killed. Meanwhile yours are enjoying safety, so you get more units, so fast-forward three minutes, they still sit in their corner while you're sending a dante there.
+1 / -0
|
quote:
actually making enemy mex slower than your sometimes killing you. |
sim city in a corner and build a sneaky pete I miss the days when sneaky pete cloaked buildings, and people actually did this xD
+0 / -0
|
Dont listen to them they all are lying. If you dont make those 5 singularities then how you gonna afford Detriminent Starlight and other fun stuff ;)
+0 / -0
|
Something that hasn't been mentioned is the variable default metal output of the mexes on different maps. Mexes that have low metal output are less efficient for overdrive. If mexes are below 1 metal per second you should really not overdrive the mexes much. Even the metal output from caretakers compete with overdrive when mexes have such low output. Also consider the value of taking a mex from the enemy. If the mex income is 2 metal per second then taking that mex from the enemy nets a 4 metal per second difference between your team and the enemy team. When wind generators produce between 1.5 to 2.5 energy which gives 2.0 on average they are actually better than Singularity reactors and you don't need to spend 4000 metal before the wind generators start to produce energy. The importance of ecoing is mostly dependent on the map. Mex output, wind output and porcyness of the map are the biggest map factors I'd say. As a rule of thumb that works for most maps:If 1000 metal in combat units won't give or lose your team a mex, then consider making a fusion or other energy structures. Edit2: Wind value.
+0 / -0
|
quote:
When wind generators produce between 1.5 to 2.5 energy which is 2.0 in average |
Umm the average wont be 2. It'll be 1.7. edit: nope... you're right
+0 / -0
|
quote:
Umm the average wont be 2. It'll be 1.7. |
How does this work? If wind is 0.0 to 2.5 then the the average is 1.25, right? If the current wind is under 1.5, will a Wind generator with minimum of 1.5 always produce exactly 1.5 no matter the value of the current wind? If it is so then the average of a 1.5-2.5 Wind generator will produce 1.7 energy on average. Or if the current wind is 1.5, will a 1.5-2.5 Wind Generator produce 2.1 energy? If so then a 1.5-2.5 wind generator will produce 2.0 energy on average.
+0 / -0
|
