Loading...
  OR  Zero-K Name:    Password:   

eraser aspi to all fac

32 posts, 1591 views
Post comment
Filter:    Player:  
Page of 2 (32 records)
sort

8 years ago
As they can be built by all cons and as they can go under water, we could add them to all fac. This would simplify their construction.
+2 / -3
8 years ago
No.
+2 / -0
8 years ago
Better idea - remove them from facs alltogether and let them be built by cons only
+4 / -0

8 years ago
Seems fine the way it is. There are advantages to each mode of construction, taking it away from the factories would be a slight nerf to those factories.
+1 / -0


8 years ago
in the early game, having them limited to fac prevents unfun combos like eraser/roach appearing before their counters.

in the mid/late game, just build a 2nd fac.
+0 / -0

8 years ago
In the early game nobody can afford the energy cost of aspis or eraser without dying.
+4 / -0

8 years ago
I'm coming back to this topic because I still don't get why eraser and aspi must not be built by fac.
I tested to rush an eraser with 4 roaches : 2:30 to get them :
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/364153

Unless 3 mins is not the early game, yes we can rush them.
The only difference I see, it is more micro (sneaky pete + morph).

But anyway, it's not a very important change, I can survive with the way it is.
+0 / -1


8 years ago
Queuable morph could be nice.
+3 / -0

8 years ago
I'm pretty sure it is queuable. While you're building it if you hit the morph button it morphs as soon as complete. I think... memory is a buncha dicks.
+1 / -0
8 years ago
this might be off topic im unsure.. but i made the current mobile area cloaker and found it of great use as a front-line skirmish asset.. making cost and winning the battle.
+0 / -0

8 years ago
The eraser is super good. First volley free and freedom to disengage. Not to mention a big army movement advantage (your forces can be in the right place at the right time while theirs cannot), tactical advantage (you can flank or choke while they cannot), composition advantage (you can react to their composition while they cannot), and standoff advantage (their skirmishers can no longer pick at you, and they've got to be scared of a close quarters engage).

Not to mention all the burst tricks you can do with roaches or dgun or whatever.

They're a support unit, but once your army is of a certain size, not making an eraser is likely a mistake. Far better than the shield version in most situations. Pretty much auto wins vs. anyone that doesn't use fleas. On top of which, it's nearly unscoutable so you sort of get one free big engage without them having knowledge of eraser, and that can be game ending in itself. It's speed and cost are its biggest limitations.
+1 / -0

8 years ago
This entire thread so far is sidestepping the fact that the OP has sound logic.
+1 / -0


8 years ago
The OP's logic fails to take into account time. For a Shield or Cloaky player, they currently have the advantage of getting the mobile versions straight out of production, given that this is their factory identity, this makes sense. Someone who isn't playing those factories can still get the mobile versions, but at a premium of time. Given that fortunes in this game can often turn in a matter of 10-20 seconds, that difference is still significant.
+2 / -0
I see three reasonable options that remove this bizarre inconsistency.

1) Add to all facs. I dislike this for aesthetic reasons.

B) Remove the morph. Then the only mobile shield and mobile cloakfields are in cloakybot/shieldbot labs. Pretty big buff to already-popular shields/cloakies.

4) Remove from shieldbot/cloakybot lab so everybody accesses the unit through static-morph.
+1 / -0
8 years ago
The extra steps of Constructor->Stationary-Version->Mobile-Version currently make eraser/shieldthing exceptions to the Flat Buildtree.
The arguements of "It is unfun units combo" or "It is too expensive at start" might be true but can be applied to many units.
I think adding them to all factories would feel wrong too but currently it seems bit inconsequent.
Imo the whole toggling between mobile/immobile via morphing is not very elegant..is that not excactly the kind of stuff that would usually be "streamlined?"
(Compare to Crab which does not have deploy-button, it just does it when it stops)
+1 / -0

8 years ago
quote:
B) Remove the morph. Then the only mobile shield and mobile cloakfields are in cloakybot/shieldbot labs. Pretty big buff to already-popular shields/cloakies.

I've always been a fan of this option - it would be my dream that every factory has at least one unique, characteristic, non-combat "utility" unit. Obviously some factories would be currently lacking.
+2 / -0
I agree with waldo in that it would be ideal for each fac to have a unique support unit but that is very hard to do; some facs don't even have an identity that this unit could represent (hovers?).

Currently they are available for everyone because this is supposed to allow interesting play. [Spoiler] Djinn is not available "publicly" because it makes play less interesting as it simplifies logistics. [Spoiler]

quote:
is not very elegant..is that not excactly the kind of stuff that would usually be "streamlined?"
(Compare to Crab

I proposed making Eraser/Aspis behave like Crabe once but it won't be done (see the following post).
+0 / -0

8 years ago
Djin suffers from usability problems mostly. It is very annoying that units bunch up around the exit portal, and then do not allow other units to move through.
+0 / -0

8 years ago
I'd love to see more support units too, but something tells me it's not the most pressing concern.

I don't really see it as contradicting a flat build tree since the construction and morph of the eraser is strategically only one step even though it takes two actions. It's more like a unit with no prereq (other than e) that finishes building itself. It's not like you need to build an armory before it hits the field.

The shield and cloak factories have more production options because they're shield and cloak factories. Err... I fail to see the inconsistency? Anyone can make a clay bowl from scratch if they want, but having possession of a factory specifically for clay junk gives you more options for achieving your goal of a clay bowl. I do admit it's a tad clunky, but it serves other goals that I feel are more important (conceptual coherence and fun play).

FRrankSlaab
Two and a half minutes to get out an eraser and roaches? Yeah that's fast but you're already dead. It can be done but it's not viable. You've been scouted in that time, you've likely failed to expand, and your opponents only has to do what he was going to do anyway (expand while flooding raiders) to destroy you. You won't get the com snipe because he's scouted and knows exactly what you're doing, and you won't get anywhere near his base due to an abundance of singular glaives in the way. If this ever works then it's likely there's a very large discrepancy in skill between players.



+1 / -0

8 years ago
quote:
Currently they are available for everyone because this is supposed to allow interesting play.

Also that explanation is so generic you could apply it to literally every Neonstorm idea.
+2 / -0
Page of 2 (32 records)