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Train Factory [CLOSED]

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USrankQrow
3 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)

Hi guys!

So, as some of you may remember, awhile back I said I was working on a train factory. Then some of you also remember that I said I dropped the project.

Well, now that I've got a bit more free time, I can finally start work on it. I do need someone to help me with 3d modling though. So if anyone can help me with that, that'd be great.

I will post updates regularly below.
+3 / -0

PLrankOrfelius
3 years ago
3d modelling is like half of the work pretty much (if not more).
Just saying.
+1 / -0

NLrankBlackdutchie
3 years ago
So what are the unit ideas like for this factory?

It's okay if you want to leave it a bit of a mystery until you've worked it out, it can supposedly be bad for productivity to reveal too much of what you're working on, but I'm interested to hear about it.
+1 / -0

USrankQrow
3 years ago
Update #1

October 8th

________________________________________________

Transport car prototype 1#

I managed to make this about a week ago, and really have done anything with it, but here it is anyway:



This is probably like, the 1st out of 7 protypes before the actually veicle.

yes, ik, it looks awful.

But anyways, thats the transport car. It also has a built in radar.

In the next update:
Cons!
+1 / -0

USrankQrow
3 years ago
Update #2

Constructors

____________________________


Yey, already got the second prtotype model for constructors done!

Images for U:









Anyways, thats the base constructor (As well as the unit needed to pull all the other cars and lay rails!).

IMO it looks a heck better than that transport.

Anyways, next update:

mechgun car!

+1 / -0


USrank_Shaman
3 years ago
(edited 3 years ago)

If this makes it to github i want the unitdef names...

Or the movetype name (planned or unplanned). So I can make trains rain from the skys for lulz.
+0 / -0


FIranksprang
3 years ago
zomg
+4 / -0


JPrankgajop
3 years ago
I'm interested in how you will design the train mechanics/movement on tracks.
+2 / -0

PLrankFailer
3 years ago
Lolz, U'll always have to make con 1st ,so it lays tracks, and if some wub plops this fac and starts with normal unit he'll get his fac stuck?

Yay, I already lvoe it.
+3 / -0



EErankAdminAnarchid
3 years ago
(edited 3 years ago)

I'll pretend to be useful:

- Tracks as typemap (similar to how we did it in Area17 with fires)
- Maps that come with pre-built tracks
- Car chaining done with the new-fangled AttachUnit behaviour from 100.0 (or is it 101?)
- Car animation to fit on tracks done by animation script of the leader car
- Non-leader cars cannot accept move orders, but will relay them to parent car
- The engine cars are actually scouts, not builders
- Speed of train depends on mass vs amount of engine cars
- Cheapest raider car: scout + weapon car
- Cheapest builder car: scout + nano car
- ...
- Project management suggestion: try figuring out the mechanics and implementation thereof first. Play with huge red blocks for your train cars because you want the technology to work FIRST and only do art then.

Projects that start with art and then try to get mechanicals done.... rogue republic anyone? All these beautiful screenshots, no gameplay.
+2 / -0

USrankQrow
3 years ago
Actually... Lol, EErankAdminAnarchid nails it. I was actually planning to use some type of guard to attach units, but I may use that behaviour if i can find it.
+0 / -0

USrankQrow
3 years ago
Update #3

Artilery
___________________________


So, I was working on this prototype and suddenly encounter a problem with almost every gun I was going to make.

How in the world was I supposed to make this stuff move?

And poof, I discovered LUA scripting. Something I sorta wasn't hoping to find because it meant that I was going to have to learn a whole new programming language.

Oh well, so much for the easy path.

Anyways, The arty unit for the train fac is sorta.... big.

Thus, Im sorta worried about the blowback knocking it off the tracks when it gets ingame.

But enough worrying, here are images for you:








+2 / -0

ROrankForever
3 years ago
(edited 3 years ago)

When you finish make a Heavy boot factory ( or teleportation boot factory) next. Since we have light v/heavy t we can have a cloak boot/ heavy boot or teleport boot factory.
+1 / -0

{redacted}
3 years ago
(edited 3 years ago)

quote:
Heavy boot factory



RUrankParzival keep going, I wanna see these ingame! Can't wait for Train Commander Chassis either. Pathing wont b a problem. Choo Choo Motherfucker!
+9 / -0

USrankQrow
3 years ago
Sketchfiles for all prototype models so far:

https://github.com/ParzivalX/TrainFactoryZK

+0 / -0


GBrankTheEloIsALie
3 years ago
quote:
try figuring out the mechanics and implementation thereof first. Play with huge red blocks for your train cars because you want the technology to work FIRST and only do art then.

Quoted for truth.

RUrankParzival, please take a moment to realize that your work can't be included in the game if it doesn't play well.
+0 / -0

USranknatch
3 years ago
Please name a unit Thomas.

I'm imagining gameplay will look something like this.

https://gifsound.com/?gfycat=CompetentDifficultArthropods&v=bYpKrA233vY
+2 / -0



AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
3 years ago
Typemaps will not work. They have jagged edges. Just imagine trying to move units down a long bendy terraformed wall. Guard would work even less. Attach unit may be used in a train implementation but it does not sound useful in the sense that the implementation would be harder if attach unit did not exist. The angles of the carriages would still require calculation, nothing here is for free.

I don't see how to write trains in a way that uses Spring to any significant extent. To rephrase; I don't think there are any tricks, nothing with typemaps, attach unit, guarding, move goals etc... All I can see is the 'brute force' approach. To get trains you have to calculate the physics yourself, do the pathing and control everything with movectrl. Spring can offer its services in the realm of unit selection, custom commands and anything non-movement related (primarily, mounted weapons).

If you someone was trying to make a train RTS I am unsure whether I would recommend Spring. It would depend on more details about the game they want to make. Spring does a lot of things for free (netcode, terrain, UI support) but they would be writing the movement logic themselves.

I estimate that it would take me at least a week to make a decent initial implementation of trains. This estimate was "at least two Ludam Dare work intervals" which turns out to be about a week. This does not include polish or later changes that become necessary. The code for trains would be at least a terraform-level gadget and widget. I estimate that I have spent around 3 to 4 weeks working on terraform but it may be more. My standards have grown alongside terraform so an initial implementation of trains would be harder than the initial implementation of terraform.

Trains are not looking likely from a technical standpoint. I do not want to spend a month and a month for me is many months for most people in Spring lua. I would like to see a train RTS though.

Have you considered a standalone game? ZK imposes many technical, mechanical and polish standards. Everything else in ZK has to interact with trains which is one of the great difficulties. There are many core assumptions in ZK which a train game may be better off ignoring. For example ZK tries to avoid grid bias; the effect where gameplay depends heavily on some underlying grid. Think Warcraft 2 compared to Warcraft 3. Or Crypt of the Necrodancer compared to Nuclear Throne. Almost all games have some underlying grid. Some try to minimize the effects while others embrace it to become a visible mechanic. I may have gone off topic. Regardless, trains are a lot easier to implement with a large grid for track construction and pathfinding. The complex mechanics of movement become a lot easier for players to reason about. Free choice of grid bias could be important in the design.

There will be lots of non-obvious design constraints that come from working in ZK. I am not going to try to separate and list them. But there are also many obvious gameplay/balance constraints. For trains in ZK to be worthwhile they have to neither overshadow ZK or be overshadowed (aka: not OP and not owled). This is another significant task.
+8 / -0


USrank_Shaman
3 years ago
(edited 3 years ago)

If this is the case, you can always ditch the train idea and come up with a sort of "Heavy floater lab" that is the heavy equivalent of the hover lab.

Or if that doesn't sound appealing you could make them aerotrains that sort of float above the ground.
+2 / -0



PLrankRafalpluk
3 years ago
(edited 3 years ago)

Please don't demotivate him guys.
Let him have the fun of creating something new.
Even if the project won't get anywhere, he will still learn lots of useful modding skills.
+11 / -0
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