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Scorpion Buff/Rework?

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8 years ago
Right now the scorpion seems bad because it doesn't have a defined role. It is somewhat good at taking out specific high value targets with it's stealth and stun, but the cheaper ultimatum is far better. The only advantage it has over the ulti in terms of single target assassination is it's all terrain mobility and higher health (Although the health difference is offset by the scorpion's larger detect radius). The scorpion can also be used against clumps of units because of it's decent DPS and AoE stun, however I think it is outclass in this aspect by the dante which has a devastating napalm salvo to deal with clumps.

I think the scorpion should be made better in some way because most players will choose a dante or ulti over the scorp.
+1 / -1
!invok DErankNeonStorm
+0 / -0
8 years ago
Scorpion has the surprise advantage over dante, also cost advantage. Plus it can stun (+stunlock) a goli (if my memory serves me well. I think it's main problem is that it is micro intensive and hard to use well, and not useful in many situations. A scorpion is mostly an answer to an enemy treat (ball of units) and cannot really assault strong points well, while a dante is used to munch up armies and assault strong points with light/medium porc. I guess the scorpion with it's 3kM cost takes too long to build up to counter a certain situation, with respect to the ulti (which is a faster and more effective force for a growing reaperball or a shieldball).
And even then it needs to use it's stun dgun very well in order to be effective right now.

Maybe it should have better weapons to follow up on it's own multistunner, and/or the stuntime of the multistunner should be increased. Or it's cost could be lowered, so I would be easier to field in case of a treat.

I think it should be really good to kill shieldballs, ravagerballs, small reaperballs, one heavy like sumo, grizzly, goli, although now ulti or dante are better in these situations.

+2 / -0
8 years ago
Maybe replace the Particle Beam Main weapon with a Heat Ray or even Melee strike? (Giant snapping claws!!)

If the purpose pf the Scorpion is to sneak in, stun and close-range destroy its victims: then the way it does damage needs to change - something close range or burst based would fit the infiltration attack far better.
+0 / -0
8 years ago
I'm thinking how scorpion can be reworked to be interesting, and very different from ulti and dante.
The cloak is nice, but it shouldn't be like ulti: big damage burst from nowhere, and huge single target DPS that melts heavies, but is very weak to anything that it cannot hit fast enough.
I think it can be differentiated from ulti by focusing it more on the stunning role: buff stun time of multistunner a bit, give the lightning more AoE to make it stun groups and heavies a bit more reliable. (although it should not be super effective vs heavies, this is the ulti's role)
Giving it more DPS would make the opponent's reaction window too small, it would be nice if the appearance of a scorpion poses some interesting counterplay: if you can send in more units to attack the scorpion from a different angle (which it kinda does already, which is interesting), you might be able to decrease the scorpion effectiveness. The scorpion would then benefit from allied units that support.

Now come the stranger ideas:
What if the scorpion would in some way become stronger over time after uncloaking? One way would be a weapon that has to warm up after cloaking (gatling gun?), it could get increasing dps as long as the scorpion is firing and stationary.

Or a mechanic that makes it stronger vs lighter units (to prevent overlap with ulti):
Give scorpion the power to munch up units/reclaim their wrecks and turning them into ... fleas/spidery drones/ that assist in dealing damage against stunned units. After an engagement these units could crawl back into the belly of the mother spider (uhm, scorpion)/ sit on top of it. (2many drone units)
vs heavies it would not get this dps increase and would have to rely on assistance or earlier kills.

This would also provide an possibility for reactive counterplay: reinforcements can decrease scorpion dps by killing the drones.
+0 / -0
8 years ago
I like the gatling and the drone idea.
But that would make the scorpion too powerful for that price I guess...
+0 / -0
Funnel and Reef have shown that drones are anti-fun. Please no more drones T.T
+7 / -0
I think scorpion is fine the way it is. It's balanced and thematic. I disagree heavily with the overlap with dante, they're just... not at all the same. There is a bit of overlap with ulti (stealth ambusher), but the similarities end there. Scorpion is not disposable, and thus only pick off isolated targets using AT and stealth to maneuver into a position from which it can take a bite out of opponent's force before retreating. Ulti is basically on a suicide mission against anything but heavy tanks, with only a small chance to return (only if opponent is very sorely caught out). I'd say ulti is closer to a higher weight skuttle.

It's not played much, but I think that's because other options in the same weight range require less attention and management, while also being better against midgame comps (which is the context your first strider will usually be looking at). They tend to do very well when attention is payed to them, having the ability to snipe coms and similarly weighted striders given sufficient isolation.

This all said, when I started writing this response I went off on a tangent about things that could be improved on. I've now put so much effort into it that I think it warrants it's own thread, so it doesn't clutter up your thread with infinite text-wall. I'll link it here when I'm done so that the scorpion discussion is 'together' while also being compartmentalised.

Edit: Here you go
http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/20474?postId=144944
+1 / -0

8 years ago
Why not give scorpi a speed buff and make it a raider strider? Its weapons and cloak are more raiderey than assaultey, and there are no raider striders while dante is the go-to assault.
+1 / -0
8 years ago
I support speed buff for scorpion.

in the vein of neonstorming, scorpion mouth could have grav beam and chicken jaws.
+0 / -0
8 years ago
quote:
Funnel and Reef have shown that drones are anti-fun. Please no more drones
Funnel and reef have shown that artillery ranged free drones are anti fun. The drones I proposed would require reclaim and would have aery limited walking range. They're just a means to give the scorpion Increasing dps when left unchecked while attacking a light unit ball. It could also get some extra targettable guns on it's arms with the same effect, but I think drones would be more visual.
+0 / -0

8 years ago
quote:
Or a mechanic that makes it stronger vs lighter units (to prevent overlap with ulti):
Give scorpion the power to munch up units/reclaim their wrecks and turning them into ... fleas/spidery drones/ that assist in dealing damage against stunned units. After an engagement these units could crawl back into the belly of the mother spider (uhm, scorpion)/ sit on top of it. (2many drone units)
vs heavies it would not get this dps increase and would have to rely on assistance or earlier kills.


I'm sort of upset. I'm not sure if I read your idea but then attributed to myself, or missed it completely, but this is one of the things I was going to suggest. I actually didn't want the drones to do much damage at all, serving primarily as scouts, and secondarily as support to help get the stun off. The reclaim munching mechanic was the guts of it though. I think it'd work well on scorpion because the scorpion has these extended periods where it's not doing anything in terrain that its difficult to get workers to.
+0 / -0

8 years ago
The Scorpion is a good anti-heavy which does not have the same all-in stats compared to the ulti, it can survive in a denser environment with more DPS being thrown about (Ulti can be popped by stray projectiles or arty if it's revealed) and is better vs crowds of units.

Ultimatum is like a panic button, it's like a skuttle, it makes huge cost if it's effective, or it could just blow up and do nothing.

Scorpion can be fielded with much less risk, has a decent pick with an anti-heavy focus, has to have attention paid to it (For the weapon facing and the d-gun) like any mech should, but does not have to be obsessively babied like the Ulti.

Frankly, more anti-heavy units should be like the Scorpion rather than the Ulti, Skuttle, Spy, etc. Most counters in the game are fairly versatile soft counters you can reliably field in your force, rather than these obsessive micro-heavy all-ins.
+0 / -0


8 years ago
I don't think scorpion is weak, In fact I consider it best option for bucks .. it's emp weapon and stealth are awesome.
+1 / -0

8 years ago
Upgrade its cloak into a cloakfield and then use it to escort other striders (or hordes of Spiders).
+0 / -0
Gone for a week and this month's baww about unit X thread comes out. Fun.

Engage super serious mode. >:l

quote:
Right now the scorpion seems bad because it doesn't have a defined role.


Striders are about the rule of cool. Therefore scorpion's role is badass stealth ninja of dead glaives. If you think it "seems bad" ever saw 3 scorpions take down a detri? If not, try it. I'm sure you're intelligent enough to figure it out.

[Spoiler]

quote:
and very different from ulti and dante.


Uhm. No. Ulti is all about alphaing its target into critical existence failure and is a pure anti-heavy (has no anti-raider ability). Scorpion is an anti-light / single target stunlock killer that takes time to kill its single heavy target. Dante is a riot-skirmisher-assault thing that pretends to know what it wants to be.

Very different characteristics.

quote:
Frankly, more anti-heavy units should be like the Scorpion rather than the Ulti, Skuttle, Spy, etc. Most counters in the game are fairly versatile soft counters you can reliably field in your force, rather than these obsessive micro-heavy all-ins.


Scorpion IS micro-heavy silly. One does not simply fight command it to the enemy base and expect it to take out heavies like a bantha might. Sure you can leave it unattended after the stunlock, but you still have to devote a sizeable chunk of attention to it.

To date I have NEVER seen someone fight move a scorpion.
+0 / -0

8 years ago
Has lightening targeting been fixed yet? Or does scorpion still miss stationary buildings?
+0 / -0
8 years ago
Staying ot topic I'd say that main EMP weapon (not multistun) stuns enemyes for a very little time. If some kind of buff shall be added, there is where.

OFFTOPIC SILLY BUFF: Give it burrowing abiliy united to "jump" (but subterrain) for ultimate ambushes!!! Then the newly added claws will grind the enemy like a can!!!
+0 / -0
8 years ago
why not just give scorpion teleport like djinn?
+0 / -0

8 years ago
Scorpion fills its role of "metal donation when you try to get clever and run into enemy lines with it" admirably.
+0 / -0
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