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Disable elo if teams unbalanced or if teams have too massive elo disparity

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8 years ago
with this concept you could make team elo more accurate

also i want people to enjoy playing uneven team games
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8 years ago
quote:
also i want people to enjoy playing uneven team games

Can you explain that further?
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8 years ago
there are multiple unvalid reason for people insisting on even numbers of players...

but one valid reason is that it's unfair in the elo sense

so remove that point of hesitation to allow people to think "ok maybe not so many want to play but this won't hurt me either"
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8 years ago
TIL losing internet points hurts you.
+3 / -0
8 years ago
losing points or gaining points hurts or happy, in subconcious calculation of effort/risk/reward, as proven by science studies on what makes MMO games addictive.
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Skasi
quote:
with this concept you could make team elo more accurate

Why not just implement a better prediction system?
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8 years ago
Just spam devs with suggestion to automatically place AI in place of any missing (both uneven teams and dropped during teh battle / resigned) player and everythings gonna be fine.
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Elo gain/loss is proportional to the unlikeliness of the result: if the strongest team wins, it gains less elo than the weakest team would do when winning.
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Skasi
8 years ago
BErankFlipstip I think by "unbalanced" USrankAutoWar refers to uneven teams. Pretty sure that currently Springiees fail at predicting the (un)likeliness of a result for uneven teams. Such being the case, the current adjustment in elo gain/loss is not ideal.
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8 years ago
What he means is ever since com income has been shared, the two com player is at a technical disadvantage. Instead of counting as two players, everyone on the same team counts as 1/N more players, including the two com player. However, CZrankSpringiee fails into taking this into account, treating every player as 1 player. This means a 1300 player needs to play as a 1625 player in a 4v5 in order to keep the balance fair. If we went by a 1/N more weight per player on the uneven team, the uneven team would have a higher elo average and the uneven team wouldn't be hurt as much by the lack of a missing player, making it more enjoyable to play uneven teams.
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8 years ago
quote:
everyone on the same team counts as 1/N more players, including the two com player. However, Springiee fails into taking this into account, treating every player as 1 player. This means a 1300 player needs to play as a 1625 player in a 4v5 in order to keep the balance fair

And he does, because he has 25% more resources than the other team's 1300 guy. Of course in practice he just becomes a larger drain but remember that the rest of the team get increased resources as well so it averages out.

A matchmaker is coming Soon™-ish so the simple solution is to just have it only create proper even games.
+2 / -0
Skasi
quote:
This means a 1300 player needs to play as a 1625 player in a 4v5

@_Shaman your unfounded assumption that a 1300 elo player with 1.25x resources needs to play as good as a 1625 elo player for a balanced game sounds to me like you currently don't understand enough about elo to be able to suggest an improvement to the balance algorithm. Taking your argument a -500 elo player would have to play as good as a -625 elo player.
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8 years ago
quote:
Taking your argument a -500 elo player would have to play as good as a -625 elo player.


You can't have a negative value in elo. This is an impossible scenario. The minimum elo is 1000.
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> You can't have a negative value in elo

Incorrect. The only thing that matters for elo are the differences between players. Exactly nothing about balance would change if we subtracted 2000 from everybody's elo.
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8 years ago
One of my test results from 2014 is that the 2 coms team wins exactly as often as the bigger team. Probably this is still true with new income share. Probably the system compensates its own missweighting of 2 com players by distortions in the elo scale (influencing elo of players who tend to get 2 coms).

For the current system and all my new systems I have generalized formulas for giving any team number k any number X_k of extra coms and giving the extra coms player a new weighting 1+w*X_k, where w is a weighting constant for extra coms. In current discussion we only had w=0 or 1, but any 0<=w<=1 is possible. I didn't test those generalizations yet, because currently the system seems to compensate it, which probably causes other errors, though.

Of course restricting the system to only a certain kind of games will improve accuracy for those games as long as there are enough games of this type. But then balancing uneven teams with elo values that are only calculated from even teams with a non-generalized system could worsen uneven team balance. Seperate elos for even and uneven teams could be an improvement, but definitely too circumstantial for a little effect that is again achieved by elo distortions.
Besides proper matchmaking (which requires enough players and should still be possible to circumvent by !forcestart for private games) or AI, a real solution would be either a generalized system or a proof that no big improvement is possible considering the possibility of elo distortions.
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8 years ago
quote:
You can't have a negative value in elo. This is an impossible scenario. The minimum elo is 1000


Incorrect. Minimum ELO is 1100.
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The people who

[​poll]
  • didn't read the thread
  • correct without fact checking
  • wonder why their posts get downvoted
[​/poll]
+2 / -0
8 years ago
I tested by alt account. Starting value is 1100 and if you lose a game it won't go any lower.
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8 years ago
Have you treid losing 30 battles? Becasue as a new account it has elo nerf which goes off after few battels( duno the exact number).

SO basically new account is 1500 elo (or so) with a nerf to 1100. If u won 1st battle and should gain 50 elos, u'd get like 150. If u lost 1st battle and lost 50 elos, u'd still gain 50 due to nerf wearing of.
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