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Title: 1v1: All welcome!
Host: CZrankElerium
Game version: Zero-K v1.3.12.1
Engine version: 100.0
Battle ID: 396199
Started: 8 years ago
Duration: 13 minutes
Players: 2
Bots: False
Mission: False
Rating: Competitive
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Team 1
Chance of victory: 56.2%

USrankdorsh
Team 2
Chance of victory: 43.8%

EErankNorthChileanG
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Ever wondered how long Jumpbots can hold out without using Moderator?
+0 / -0

8 years ago
NCG you need to stop using autogroups if you're going to maintain an aggressive playstyle. Every single time you're raiding with units you're also producing, you're creating more work for yourself by having to prevent your other units suiciding. Manually assigning hotgroups is not very intensive, and you've always got the option to quickly select all units of a type by control+z (iirc). Autogroups is all downside if you intend on raiding.
+0 / -0
Skasi
8 years ago
To add to Ctrl Z:
You can also use Ctrl X if you just want to select all units of selected types in the current viewport/window/screen (however you call it).
+0 / -0

8 years ago
SnuggleBass - I have to strongly disagree on autogrouping and raiding there. It is priceless for me to premove freshly built raiders in the direction of main group without looking (100% time left for microing) and this is the reason I continiously select freshly built raiders for movement with groupselect. The faster the raiders and the flatter the map, the better it works. Have to agree, that anything nonflat and with chokepoints is not usable.

Selecting few units from map + ctrl-z is prohibitively slow for me compared to just pressing number button (left handed mouse, probably should remap the ctrl-z and ctrl-x).
+0 / -0
Skasi
8 years ago
You can also just set your factory rally close to your front.
+1 / -0
8 years ago
i usually set a fight waypoint from the factory to near the front and then ctrl+z or carefully zoom and ctrl+x to grab new units to add to the ball. i don't even control group my main force, i just box select a clump of them and ctrl+x for the rest. i only bother grouping individual units like snipers and also my active raiding forces. factory's onscreen all the time anyway so that doesn't need a group. altogether i find control groups mostly unnecessary, though i consider myself just above the bottom of the scrub-tier players so i'm probably doing something wrong
+0 / -0


8 years ago
USrankdorsh you're statistically better than me and I'm the one commentating. I wouldn't sell yourself so short.
+0 / -0

8 years ago
@NCG
As Skasi mentioned, rally points will have your army where you need it to be without needlessly isolating individual elements or exposing it to unecessary risk. Remapping control Z+X is a good idea (though even then, over-reliance can be bad and I'd argue control+z should be used sparingly if possible, I had to to remove control+Z as it was compromising my positional play).

@Dorsh
I think that that's a good approach. Hotgroups are useful but also kind of clumsy. If you can control stuff without using hotgroups that's great. I mostly use them for multifrontal raiding, orchestrating bombing runs, and responding with AA.
+0 / -0
Call me a noob, but I like autogroups. Don't really feel like they are a detriment up to 2200 Elo at least if you use them right.

Maybe if one's aspiring to become Godde v2 it would be important to avoid them, but if you just want to make top 3 on the ladder autogroups should work great.
+2 / -0

8 years ago
Really? Huh.

I'll reevaluate.

How does one 'use them right'?
+0 / -0
1) Use them in conjunction with manual control groups and split your army. I guess the pitfall of overly relying on autogroup to do everything is partly why autogroups have such bad reputation.

What I do is I use autogroups and manual control groups both. Generally all my raiders autogroup to group 5, but nothing autogroups on number 1, so when I want to split my raiders up and multifront I just add a bunch of my raiders to group 1. This way I get the best of both worlds, since autogroup lets me save some APM when applying constant pressure, but manual grouping still lets me have the flexibility and control I want.

2) You need a good decent autogroup setup. I use something like this:
2 - skirms
3 - assaults and riots (main army)
4 - scouts and some weird units
5 - raiders
6 to 8 - AA and fliers

It might not be super good, but it does the job. An example of a bad setup would be having riots and skirms on the same group.

I find that especially for newer players autogroups might be very helpful, since the APM savings on army management will let the player focus a lot more on macro, which is more important. Result: Elo goes up (even if the player multifronts a little bit less, but that can be fixed later).
+1 / -0

8 years ago
I think it's important to autogroup Swifts, since they can be hard to select otherwise.
+0 / -0

8 years ago
Nice. Split that false dichotomy right down the middle. Yeah I can endorse such a hybridisation. May even look into adopting it.

ATM my setup is clunky. I don't like using the numbers higher than 5, so I'm reallocating groups at different points in the game. 1-3 are separate raider groups until I get myself a main army. 1 becomes main army, while 2 becomes flank and 3 becomes specialty units. 4 is AA, but when I have both ground and air AA I don't know which one's which. I do need to look into standardising my hotkeys further. It requires too much thought to allocate and reallocate groups in this way for too small an advantage, so maybe I'll fiddle with implementing some hotgroups and force myself to widen my handspan?
+0 / -0


8 years ago
Yeah, I have the same issue. Since I set factories to control groups 6 and up, I only have 1-5 to work with. Mind you, I tend to avoid autogroups in the first few minutes, opting instead to group aggressive groups to 1 and 3, and defensive groups to 2 and sometimes 4, with 5 usually reserved for AA.
+0 / -0