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Time Travel Mechanic

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8 years ago
now that's a selling point:

Explore countless parallel realities in ZK!
Every game experience is different!
Even of the same game!
+2 / -0
Skasi
8 years ago
10 games in 1!
Buy 1, get 9 FREE!
+1 / -0
And what's best, usually everyone wins their own version of the game! No more saltiness!
+3 / -0
DErank[2up]knorke: Hazard, the main engine dev for Achron, has repeatedly discussed how limited the engine is when asked and why, but generally in scattered forum posts on the Achron website. [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6]. Also, I've pretty much explored every part of that game and engine (including the source code) so I know first hand how limited it is.

The big limitation is not RAM, but CPU cache. The whole point of stuffing everything into as few bits as possible is to make sure everything fits neatly into cache lines, to reduce the time it takes to compute stuff. Loading from RAM is too slow for jumping around the timeline responsively, and even that is limited to about 1 jump every 2 seconds on stock maps.
+2 / -0
8 years ago
Guys this is very simple. We jsut need to have 2 separate battles run on the same map, (or even not, for spacetime travel!) and a special unit (or buuilding) called Spacetime Gate! Now, two players in both games need to make one of those. Now you can move your units between games!
Imagine the possibilities! You can make Detri in a game and then transport it into a fresh game for free win! Or, you can transport your units into another game, win it, and then get your units back to the 1st game in the exactly the same moment!
Or, if u see taht you are going to lose the game, transport your units away from the planet making them 'exist' in the Void, and then, when the next game starts you can make Spacetime Gate and get your units back to the new battlefield!
Or more!
+1 / -0
PLrankFailer
AUrankAdminGoogleFrog and I discussed it, and while it is possible to have two separate 2v2 games with players transferring units between them through portals, it's also possible to have a single 4v4 game on a single map where players transfer units between them by moving/giving them.

The first option has a definite "Cool Factor" but it's very very similar in gameplay to splitting a map to lanes.
+1 / -0
8 years ago
Someone didn't get the joke
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It's much less of a joke than you think. It's actually possible and even working.
Spring 1944 had (has?) a "Zombies" mutator where your units persist between battles and based on how your game went, you can buy new units through your web browser.
+1 / -0
8 years ago
i wish spring 1944 didn't look more like spring 1993 for windows 3.1
+0 / -1
8 years ago
+0 / -0

8 years ago
quote:
mutator where your units persist between battles and based on how your game went, you can buy new units through your web browser

2009 CA Planetwars, where your powered DDMs persisted in enemy spawn area and you could buy a gaetor rush for meta-currency.
+2 / -0
Skasi
NEW IDEAS! Moar Neonstorming:

Time capsule (easy to code)
A ~5k metal building. You can put a total of x mass in units into the building. Once activated the building and all units inside disappear. After a certain time has passed the units that were inside the building will reappear at the exact same location. (for when enemies are pushing your front very hard and you want to surprise them)

Save point (hard to code)
A ~25k metal building. Just as it says on the bin. Can be used once to "save the game". On second activation the whole game is set back in time, but the building will be gone. (this will be the most fun in never-ending FFA games!)
+1 / -0
quote:
What about the power of desync? It proved perfectly capable of running multiple different games in one match :P

Different games run one on each machine? Sure, that'd make time travel possible at the cost of requiring a compute cluster to play Spring.
+0 / -0
8 years ago
more neonstorm!

superweapon: mass teleporter
works exactly like a RA chronosphere, teletrasport units. Useful for assaults on superporced based with singus and on others superweapons. Basically is a teleport without the need of sending a djinn into enemy territory.
+0 / -0

8 years ago
quote:
Time capsule (easy to code)
A ~5k metal building. You can put a total of x mass in units into the building. Once activated the building and all units inside disappear. After a certain time has passed the units that were inside the building will reappear at the exact same location. (for when enemies are pushing your front very hard and you want to surprise them)

"Enemies are pushing my front very hard, let's rush a 5k building there"

OTA Arm mission 18 comes to mind.
+1 / -0
quote:
OTA Arm mission 18 comes to mind.

Was my favourite!
I even made a custom more hardcore version of it and then played it myself like 20 times... Good times :)
+0 / -0
8 years ago
quote:
completely resets the game world to commanders spawning on a fresh map, effectively restarting the game.
(...) Spring comes with a height-map restoring command, units and wrecks can be removed and commanders can be spawned. The only thing I'm not sure about is how easy it would be to restore rocks, trees and other map-destroy/reclaimables.
In spring Rocks, trees and other eatables are called "features."
Reading features positions/properties and (re)spawning them is excactly what was used as example used in some beginner Lua tutorial, so that gives hint about the difficulty.

CArankAdminShadowfury333 Thanks for links, I read the posts of this dude and some random ones. But was not so insightful.
link 1 - nothing technical except general "does not work in other engines" (obvious)
link 2 - bit about pathfinding or so
link 3 - log-in required (too lazy to register, sry. i last this played in demo (or was it some beta?))
link 4 - something about balance and that cloaking was too much effort
link 5 - Bit interessting now:
"Yep, turrets would take at least 6 bits. (..)
The z-position takes up 5 bits"

- So far, so good... -
"We don't currently have even 6 bits free."
Why not?
Link 6 - log-in required

Maybe link 4&6 have the answers but so far this did not explain why storing a few more bits is not possible.
Like does it somehow explode exponentially like Techa eco or what is the problem.
I do not understand what makes this so heavy computing that the difference of RAM vs CPU cache and every little bit matters. (is that somewhere mentioned in forum?) "Fitting into cache lines" and all that seems more like writting demoszene of C64?
To ask naively, I can jump around in a HD video without problem, every frame maybe already holds more information than all the units?
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quote:
Achron with Spring requires you to solve two practically impossible problems:
Speed up the simulation (all non-graphics bits) by at least a factor of 10. This is required because the timewaves and player wave system is going to need to run at least 10 copies of Spring at once.
Make a savegame system which is able to store 1000s of simframes, save them constantly throughout the game and load them with little noticable delay.

If Spring supported simultaneous play across multiple maps then it may be possible to hack together a small scale timetravel game. It would be possible to do on a map split into regions but that would be really ugly.


Thank you GoogleFrog for the input. I get the impression that the second item is a solution to the more more general reversible computing problem that this mechanic poses. Where any point in the process has to be generated without knowledge of previous state.

Which might mean doing away with the game loop paradigm entirely. I have an idea for an alternative solution i'm trying to debunk before I post about it in any detail for the community to tear it apart. It actually depends largely on whether linear functions can be computed efficiently and that all non-graphical simulation mechanics can be represented as a linear function of time.

my intuition also tells me that at least some of these calculations can be run on the gpu for extra processing power if the cpu proves to be too limiting despite the ability to be efficiently computed, but i'm considerably less certain of this.

I like all the other possible approaches mentioned too. Lots of possibilities to choose from.
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8 years ago
PA claimed they used a similar system of storing "curves" and not discrete positions which I think allowed them to implement random time access.
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8 years ago
my ky bad s bkn bcas slld at n t.. cant t n =(

bt dnt y gt a n n sn
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