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devs: before develop new things, solution the Problems!!!!

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DErankXivender
2 months ago
Before do you anything on Zero-K, solution problems on stupid slasher AI...,
soo extremly stupid this shit.

This is shit!!!!
+4 / -7
AUrankhedgehogs
2 months ago
Schisse!

Well lol. They are, but most AI is actually unable to do things.
Venom stops jinking once stun, AI stands still in enemy fire.
+0 / -0
GBrankTheEloIsALie
2 months ago
"We were gonna do this awesome steam release, but we just couldn't get it done because we had to adjust unit AIs..."
+3 / -3
USrank_Shaman
2 months ago
(edited 2 months ago)

Why don't you solution your translator's problems before developing new rage posts?

PR's welcome by the way. :)
+3 / -1
USrankaeonios
2 months ago
I looked at the slasher's unit script and tactical ai and could not find anything obvious which would cause slashers to chase things when on hold pos. Obviously they should not..
+0 / -0
DErankmm19
2 months ago

Donator star
A bit off topic, but where can I find those scripts ?
+0 / -0
USrankaeonios
2 months ago
quote:
A bit off topic, but where can I find those scripts ?

https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/tree/master/scripts
https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/blob/master/LuaRules/Configs/tactical_ai_defs.lua
+2 / -0
CHrankConnetable
2 months ago
(edited 2 months ago)


Donator star
I think I have used slashers before, and I do not think I can remember them moving while on hold position.

+1 / -0
USrankaeonios
2 months ago
Multiplayer B437072 6 on Red Comet is a pretty good example. Slashers on holdpos chase a bunch of phoenixes through the enemy's porc.
+0 / -0
AUrankAquanim
2 months ago
(edited 2 months ago)

A timestamp would be nice.

EDIT: Okay, Xivender starts screaming "FUCK YOU DEVS" at around 6:30.

And, well... the slashers aren't on hold position (unless you are talking about the move state toggle), they have been given a fight-move command.

This is what you get for using fight-move command on Slashers.

"Through" the porc is also misleading. They chase the phoenix until it is no longer inside some radius, then return to shooting at the porc.
+1 / -0
CHrankFlipstip
2 months ago
(edited 2 months ago)



I remember there used to be slasher fight behaviour were they would not start moving (e.g. to chase a target), when another enemy was in range. Instead they just changed targets.

Maybe this was the old "smart AI", before slashers started to believe they can kite.

[Spoiler]
+8 / -0
USrankaeonios
2 months ago
I'm not sure if the kiting behavior has anything to do with it, but slashers should refrain from chasing random things as long as there's a target in range. That's what units are supposed to do when given fight orders on hold pos.
+1 / -0
AUrankAquanim
2 months ago
(edited 2 months ago)

If there's been a change to Slasher behaviour my understanding is that it is engine-side.

I'm not sure kiting comes into it at all unless you turn on unit AI.
+0 / -0
ILrankAdminhokomoko
2 months ago
The engine provides generic behaviour for the average unit.
Slasher has a very big issue that it can't fire while moving; That makes fight/attack commands problematic. So the issue is more Slasher being what it is than the engine's default behaviour.
+0 / -0
USrankQrow
2 months ago
Idea: How about we take away heatray's thing where it does more damage if the enemies are closer, and replace it with a set value. Buff speed of nessecary.
+0 / -4
AUrankAquanim
2 months ago
(edited 2 months ago)

quote:
Idea: How about we take away heatray's thing where it does more damage if the enemies are closer, and replace it with a set value

So you've wandered into a thread and made a completely irrelevant suggestion to remove one of the more interesting mechanics in the game?

whyyy


ILrankAdminhokomoko if it was unclear, I do agree that the way to make Slasher work properly is to write special rules for it ZK-side rather than changing anything engine-side. My point was that AFAIK the cause of Slasher behaving less nicely than at some undetermined point in the past was probably an engine-side change to the generic behaviour which as a side-effect made Slasher behave poorly.
+0 / -0
AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
2 months ago

Donator star
I don't think there has been any engine change. I think that nobody, except for DErankXivender uses Fight with Slashers and fails to learn from their experience. Maybe this can be fixed if something related to maneuver leash length is supported/working in unitdefs. Otherwise, simply create a gadget which removes attack commands from Slashers if the command was automatically assigned to them and the target of the command is outside range. This was the conclusion I reached in the previous thread on this topic.
+2 / -0
CHrankFlipstip
2 months ago


Since nobody seems to interpret what I said the way I wanted, I will restate what I said:

Iirc, there was a time when slashers behaved as Xivender wants, I also used fight command with slashers and it worked great. I suspect, since there were no engine changes, that this was due to their smart AI:
They stop when an enemy is in range, and didn't move again until there were no more targets available.

But at some point, slasher smart AI was modified, were slashers would automatically try to kite. This turned out to make them less effective, many assaults and riots could walk into range before the slashers packed their gun, and the slashers would have been better off trying to finish off the unit while it approached.
Result: People started to turn off smart AI.

After a while, people started to notice that slashers now chased their targets, leading to Xivender's rage post.

TLDR:
I think the old smart AI was good, then it was changed to failkiting, people turned off smart ai, which turned out to to have this chasing problem
+1 / -0
AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
2 months ago

Donator star
quote:
Iirc, there was a time when slashers behaved as Xivender wants, I also used fight command with slashers and it worked great. I suspect, since there were no engine changes, that this was due to their smart AI:
They stop when an enemy is in range, and didn't move again until there were no more targets available.
I don't think there was ever such a time. I've done some testing, disabled lua etc.. The onus is now on you to find such a time.

quote:
But at some point, slasher smart AI was modified, were slashers would automatically try to kite. This turned out to make them less effective, many assaults and riots could walk into range before the slashers packed their gun, and the slashers would have been better off trying to finish off the unit while it approached.
Result: People started to turn off smart AI.
Slashers have never had default-enabled smart AI. Their behaviour is untouched by lua unless you tick a state toggle, which starts off.

I know the development history and what the gadgets do. You'll need to come up with demonstrations, not unreliable recollections.
+1 / -0
USrankaeonios
2 months ago
Well, if we can prove that holdpos slashers with ai disabled don't chase things then it's science. Otherwise it's probably an engine issue.
+1 / -0
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