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Zero-K v1.5.3.4 - Cloaky Buffs

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AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
17 days ago

I have decided to be a bit less cautious with balance changes. The Cloakybot Factory felt a bit let down by its small units so here are some appropriate buffs. Glaive is cheaper and faster. Rocko is mainly faster and has low reload time.

Balance



Glaive:
  • Speed 3.8 -> 4
  • Cost 65 -> 60
The speed should be particularly important for Glaive, given its low range.

Rocko:
  • Health 390 -> 420
  • Speed 2.2 -> 2.3
  • Projectile velocity 190 -> 200
  • Reload time 3.8 -> 3.5
Rocko used to have 480 health years ago, before it was nerfed.

Fixes


  • Fixed Swiss.
  • Fixed stacking geos and windgens.
  • Fixed performance cost of tab playerlist.
  • Fixed simple teamcolours colours.

+6 / -0



unknownrankSnuggleBass
16 days ago
(edited 16 days ago)

Quite the buffs. I look forward to playing a cloaky style that doesn't rely so heavily on warrior.

Rocko health buff applied:
Survives +1 hit vs.
+ rapier
+ puppy
+ scythe

Pretty much all other unit match-ups are either affected by this change linearly (in the case of high ROF weapons), or ignore this change due to shot 'rounding'.

Note that this is just within the rounding of a lot of units, even a slight hp increase would buff it vs. a bunch of other units (e.g. one more hit point would make it take another defender shot which is a 25% increase in efficiency vs. defender lines).

I think glaive speed bonus and cost reduction are more significant than might first be obvious. Glaives are melee units equivalent to zerglings in SC. Can you remember how important the speed upgrade/creep bonus was? This isn't the same magnitude, but it's very important. You're going to have slightly more glaives in the right places more often, and when they close they will get in damage quicker.

Raider match-ups that might be tipped in favour of cloaky by this change:
+ bandit
+ scorcher

Both these match-ups used to be a marginal loss for glaives (to the point where you could still outplay the disadvantage). These changes might put glaives on equal footing, or even grant raider superiority. Playing against AUrankAdminGoogleFrog, I felt like my glaives were doing more against his bandits than normal. That might just be a feel though.

If cloaky does get raider superiority, that would put the affected match-ups on their heads.

All in all I think cloaky fac will be slung up into a first tier factory. It's received buffs to warrior, zeus, rocko, and glaive since its fall from grace, and I can't see a factory with this many strong options falling flat. I'm pretty excited to see glaive be relevant again.
+0 / -0

PLrankFailer
16 days ago
(edited 16 days ago)

Since you have finally buffed "the rest of" cloaky fac, the only reason why you kept scythe OP, that is - the rest of the fac sucks, becomes invalid.
Nerf it already.
+0 / -0



EErankAdminAnarchid
16 days ago
quote:
Nerf it already.

Starting commander health +800 -- done!
+5 / -0

RUrankivand
16 days ago
Warriors might need a little nerf, with respect to the recent changes. It's unfun unit, a regenerating jack of all trades.
+2 / -0



EErankAdminAnarchid
16 days ago
Warriors are nowhere close in their generalism to e.g. Scalpels, even if they regenerate. That said, regeneration does play against their designed weakness (vulnerability to being skirmished).
+1 / -0


ILrankAdminhokomoko
16 days ago
I'm not sure I agree.
I always saw riots as a unit that holds land (said land can be in the middle of your enemy's base).
Moving them away to regenerate isn't as painful as losing them, but it still forces their controller to retreat.
+2 / -0

RUrankivand
16 days ago
(edited 16 days ago)

Riot units should mostly be used for territory control & defense. Mostly. Right?
Nowadays warriors are often used in place of glaives and zeuses, that I don't feel is right.
+1 / -0


USrankFealthas
16 days ago
Thats mostly because glaives suck(or used to). Warriors are still terrible assult units. A single llt will take a warrior down to 50% hp before it dies.
+1 / -0

PLrankFailer
16 days ago
And then the warrior will regenerate to 100%, before it reaches the next LLT 5 meters away.
+1 / -0

AUrankhedgehogs
16 days ago
quote:
Warriors are still terrible assult units


Well, what would you excpect from a low-healthed, slow unit??

I do like these changes, especially to Rocko and Glaive, but I wish whole cloakfac can regenerate to have a more distinct playstyle that isn't warrior
+1 / -0


USrankFealthas
16 days ago
quote:
quote:

Warriors are still terrible assault units

Well, what would you excpect from a low-healthed, slow unit??

well...I'd expect them to be terrible assault units....


quote:
I do like these changes, especially to Rocko and Glaive

well...nothing else was changed...soooooo
+3 / -0

AUrankhedgehogs
16 days ago
(edited 16 days ago)

Rocko pretty much sucked.

Very very bad.
Hammer is almost replacement for Rocko.

Warrior is probably the best here unless you know how to use Tick+Glaive against defenses
quote:
The Cloakybot Factory felt like let downit Sucked completly by it's small units

+0 / -0



unknownrankSnuggleBass
16 days ago
I think that if these buffs stay, either warrior may need a nerf, or other riots might need a buff. I personally prefer a cloaky bot factory with strong mobile units over one that makes slow death pushes. That said, the quality of life improvement of warrior regen outweighs the balance issue for me... Warrior is now a cheap, reliable, regenerator with enormous dps, and it would be awkward to nerf these capacities. The regeneration could be reduced while still keeping the same feel. This would reduce the run-away tempo victories that warrior can get early in the game. Maybe HP? So long as it still takes four duck shots an HP reduction would keep it strong vs. all raiders while making it more susceptible to skirmishers etc.

I would personally prefer other riots be buffed to come into line with warrior. Most of them feel weak even if it is still a good idea to make them *grumbles at gf*. Leveler is very slow, but also unreliable vs. scorcher. Banisher is fine sort of because it's in HT and people love that stuff for no reason, but mace is so expensive I'd prefer to rely on constantly updating statics. Outlaw and scallop are well-balanced (though I still avoid making scallops for general use).

Warrior assault stuff:
Warriors die to overlapping defense ranges very quickly. Well before making cost. One of the main benefits of assault units is that they largely ignore defenders, but each defender chunks off almost 40% of a warrior health before it starts firing. While it can make great cost in lightly porced areas (so very powerful at beginning of game), it is not an assault and never will be, even if it can do the job just a little bit.
+1 / -0

AUrankhedgehogs
16 days ago
(edited 16 days ago)

No need to nerf warrior, buff Cloak :P

Warrior is the mainstay simply because the rest are/or a) expensive b) hard to use c) suck

Newbs use cloak because of the promise it's easy to learn which is why Warrior is so monospammed, it's easy to use, destroys stuff pretty quickly, and can do multiple roles, while not being the best at them, it can still do it. The newb's godsend. Powerful, cheap, does a lot.

That's why Newbs don't go Tick bomb, or Zeus rush or Microglaive since their either more expensive, need more skills, or have more micro required.


Newbs do build Zeus, often crazily when they face porc, then they build warrior
+1 / -0



AUrank[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng
16 days ago
Maybe.. maybe its about time the scythe was nerfed back towards sanity.
+1 / -0

DErankBrackman
16 days ago
Rocko buff seems ok, but Glaive OP, especially compared to Bandit.
+0 / -0


USrankFealthas
16 days ago
Scythes don't even get used (effectively) that often.
+2 / -0



AUrank[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng
16 days ago
Because most of communtiy either clusterlob or low elo mc rust, doesn't make them less cray
+0 / -0



RUrankFirepluk
16 days ago
resigned
+0 / -0
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