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Disappointed on the balance

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ROrankForever
31 days ago
I recently had a few games while playing air and gunships. Gunships seems fine even if the krow doesn't make the cost if enemy makes 1 K counter to it (doesn't seem fair). But recently I noticed a very big fail from the balance team. I saw that the wyvern is pointless in making and using it. I must remind you guys that it doesn't have that much hp, doesn't 1 shot commanders and has bad behavior when you try to turn it around. Besides all this you guys wanted to give it a little more love right ? Now it reload 5X times slower and for a 2 K unit worth of metal that's a bad idea from my point of view.

Can I ask what is the reason behind all this ? Can we at least make some voting system before we change the units ? Can I ask what is the purpose of the air player right now ?
+4 / -0

NOrankKingstad
31 days ago
the...lihko? Still drops its load way before a raven would and sees play all the time. Now the "raptor" seems underpowered as one usually just makes swifts instead.
+0 / -0


PLrankAdminSprung
31 days ago
(edited 31 days ago)

quote:
Can we at least make some voting system before we change the units ?

The meta is a voting system; each game is a ballot box.

quote:
Can I ask what is the reason behind all this ?

Likho received too many nerf votes.
+5 / -2


DErankAdminmojjj
31 days ago
(edited 31 days ago)

last game on nuclear winter, you flew right into a bunch of 6? felons and other stuff, which insta-grilled it because you targeted empty ground or something. does this have something to do with your opinion on this unit?
+1 / -0

ROrankForever
31 days ago
(edited 31 days ago)

From those 6 felons DErankAdminmojjj only 2 attacked my licko ( and because of the bad turning speed it went close to those felons)...That bomb is for attacking clustered units. You can't just kill 1 small unit at a time with it. Because of it's reload enemy already repairs what you hit before you even reload. I think you get the point.

My opinions is that if we don't bring a plane that has a brawler attack dmg the factory will become obsolete.
+0 / -0


AUrankAquanim
31 days ago
Just because Likho isn't as blatantly broken as it was when it had 5s reload doesn't mean Planes is unplayable. It still kills and/or survives exactly the same things it did before, just a little less often.

With the manual fire change Thunderbird is (if anything) even more outrageous than it has ever been. Raven, Phoenix and Raptor are kind of niche IMO but sometimes you want them. And finally, even if the bombers literally didn't exist I would still build Planefac sometimes for Owl and Swift.
+5 / -1



AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
31 days ago
Likho makes value by retreating to repair. Therefore its strength is that it has high raw health and is nimble enough to retreat. A well managed Likho will persistently survive and keep increasing attrition.
+2 / -0

ROrankForever
31 days ago
(edited 31 days ago)

AUrankAdminGoogleFrog you realise I am one of the best players in this game when it comes to air gameplay right? (out of my 1000 CA awards half of them came from air gameplay) Don't tell me how Likho works because it's kind of silly. My point was that nerfing factories to the point where you just use 2 units in it makes no sense. Napalm bomber is made of paper, swifts only good for scouting, Vamps (don't know what they are called now ) are useless because of the slow speed and because they only attack air units. The standard 300 metal cost bomber performs as expected and same goes for the Vulture. So 2 units from all of the factory are worth using and avengers from time to time are good. I mostly never use stilleto because it's a 600 metal waste of metal that dies fast. A simple skuttle does more damage and performs better on the battlefield so I prefer a factory switch instead of stilleto. At least it kills some things if you know what I mean.

The problem with zero-k is that there are a cluster of admins/moderators that always accept the same idea and never even playing the game properly in order to understand those changes. Is there a change for a better communication between us and you guys ? I mean I understand that the game is done and worked by you but you guys try to think that the purpose of this game must be according to what you want. You forget that this is Open source and not all things must be balanced by 2 admins that influences the other admins players. I tried many times to talk with you guys and to present that the current perspective you guys are working right now won't make this game better.
To continue this idea I want to explain that you ideological lock yourself from thinking that this game can be more than a 1 vs 1 RPS style strategy game. Tried hundreds of times to tell you that but there was no chance. You have always formulated an expression like "do it yourself" "code it yourself" "it's bad balance" " doesn't fit in our picture this kind of gameplay" and trying to move away from the subject.

So this is my perspective and I hope that I am wrong. If you guys continue to do the things you are currently doing there won't be a good future for Zero-K ( balancing game from a 1 vs 1 perspective only, not trying to integrate more complexity to the game, braking interesting features like commanders, removing mods that don't fit your profile, instant balance without reason). The statistics already shows us that we started to lose players in this game and for good reasons. You will have your "perfect" 1 vs 1 game or whatever you guys call it but will it be worth it by losing a game that can change the face of RTS games ?

I am telling you this because I know this game can brake the ice when it comes to RTS games if we do it properly. I never saw such complex mechanics in a game before even tho it doesn't have good graphics. I have a strong PC but still I come here to play the game because it's something unique. I hope you guys try to understand that I am not trying to insult what you guys are currently working on in this game. I am just trying to present you a better solution that I think will make this game work better for RTS community and for a better future in Zero-K.
+7 / -2


AUrankAquanim
31 days ago
(edited 31 days ago)

quote:
I am one of the best players in this game when it comes to air gameplay right?

quote:
I mostly never use stilleto

lel

Stop whinging about how nobody listens to you and become somebody worth listening to.
+2 / -7

ROrankForever
31 days ago
(edited 31 days ago)

Yes AUrankAquanim a factory switch worth 600 metal is more effective than a stilleto. You can use other units to stun/disarm enemy and are more effective from long range.
"Stop whinging about how nobody listens to you and become somebody worth listening to."
Careful there AUrankAquanim you are taking it a little to personal right now. Mind your business and post things from zero-k perspective.
+4 / -2


AUrankAquanim
31 days ago
(edited 31 days ago)

Alright, let me put it this way then.

quote:
The problem with zero-k is that there are a cluster of admins/moderators that always accept the same idea and never even playing the game properly in order to understand those changes. Is there a change for a better communication between us and you guys ?

This is not accurate. The developers do take feedback from the community into account when making changes. They just don't do all the things which you in particular want them to do. It's not a personal thing against you, it's just that they don't think all of the opinions which you in particular have will lead to a better game.
+3 / -2

ROrankForever
31 days ago
"The developers do take feedback from the community into account when making changes."
AUrankAquanim these are just 2 examples I found fast in the "Pools" feature in home Menu. The changes were made despite the fact that the votes were on contradiction with the current changes.



Don't make me bring others example here.
+2 / -1


AUrankAquanim
31 days ago
I didn't say they always did what the majority wanted. In some cases the majority wants things which will not improve the game.

Neither of those things are directly balance related either although I'm sure examples exist.
+2 / -1

ROrankForever
31 days ago
"I didn't say they always did what the majority wanted. In some cases the majority wants things which will not improve the game."

And again as I mentioned before " A group of 2 admins that controls the others admin in what they do "

Seriously AUrankAquanim ?
+0 / -1


AUrankAquanim
31 days ago
What exactly is your point Forever? Whether it's planefactory balance or anything else, you're going to have to advance a better argument than "because I want it" or even "because a vote of random players wanted it".
+0 / -2

ROrankForever
31 days ago
The point was already spoken here AUrankAquanim but because you were ignorant you didn;t see it in the first big post I wrote. Have a good day.
+2 / -1


AUrankAquanim
30 days ago
You gave a single anecdote with no replays and no links. If you expect any change to happen on that basis...
+0 / -3

ROrankForever
30 days ago
The basis is that you need to play more games AUrankAquanim and stop asking for replays. We recently realised that " In some cases the majority wants things which will not improve the game" I mean you realised that. I hope you realise the first fact I wrote in this post you are reading right now.
+0 / -1


AUrankAquanim
30 days ago
(edited 30 days ago)

Oh, you want to see I've been playing some games do you?

http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/477861
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/477860
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/477739

My last three largish teams games. At least two of them, maybe three (don't recall exactly) planes games, all won with Thunderbird. I'd probably have made a Wyvern or two if Thunderbird hadn't won the game so fast.
+1 / -0

ROrankForever
30 days ago
Good job... keep doing it. You will understand soon :)
+1 / -0
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