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Turn and fire. Why?

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12 years ago
Scenario:

I have a Warlord set to hold fire since I want to control exactly what it's doing with its low RoF weapon. I tell it to face side-on to my intended target, so that it can bring all its guns to bear. I then tell it to attack a cluster of enemies on the radar. It proceeds to turn toward them so that only its forward guns fire. The rear guns are now on cooldown and are completely useless: I just wasted half my barrage.

Scenario:

I am using a Penetrator, also set to hold fire, and want it to take down an advancing Grizzly. I point it away from the grizzly for some easy skirmishing. I tell it to attack the grizzly. It turns all the way around before firing, and I tell it to turn back around to get away, and it slowly complies. While it's spending 10s turning around the grizzly finally gets into range and zzap - 1000m down the drain.

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Is there any way of giving an attack command that won't cause this kind of stupidity? I just want to tell my units to aim their turrets, not face the target. Mostly this behaviour is good, but when using the Pene it can be SO frustrating!

If this command doesn't exist, I'll put it forward in the suggestions section.
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12 years ago
There's a new command called SetTarget that tells a unit to prioritize firing at X, but I don't think that overrides Holdfire and will make the unit open fire on the given target.

The issue to create the normal ZK bindings and GUI for the SetTarget command exists in the issue tracker:

http://code.google.com/p/zero-k/issues/detail?id=1081
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12 years ago
All three guns on a Warlord cool down independently.
It should be smart enough to turn for a broadside yeah.

For this sort of thing the best option would be the set target functionality, but the buttons are hidden at the moment. I'll try to have them unhidden (need icons first).
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12 years ago
Unhidden settarget buttons was deemed to be UI clutter. It has been bindable in the keybind menu for a while.

settarget overrides almost everything iirc. It will mostly always fire at the target and only fire at that target if it is on hold fire. I think a unit with an attack command and settarget command will fire at the attack command.
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12 years ago
If a unit cannot fire at a target, it will A. Face the target. B. Move towards the target.

This includes if the target is behind an obstacle, terrain, out of range, or otherwise obstructed.

In both these situations, this is probably what is happening to you. The battleship will not turn from broadside as long as it can fire its primary weapon. The penetrator will not turn to face its target if it is in range and unobstructed. What you want is to be able to tell it to hit a target, when it is able, but not to move towards that target: the settarget command.

We could make the battleship turn broadside to fire using a fake weapon, but we'd have to chose whether it turns to fire from the left or right. The current behavior is probably better.
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12 years ago
Thanks all, it looks like the settarget command is what I want!

AUrankAdminSaktoth: You could well be right. I might test that, but for the moment I'll just use settarget.
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Skasi
Ooooh while we're at it. Can we pleeeeeease decrease Warlord's turnrate? Right now it dodges shots by turning. It turns very fast. That just ruins any feel of heavy- or clumsiness. It's a bit similar to Sumo's insane jumprange, but worse!

Acceleration's a bit high too, but that's nowhere near as extreme, so it's alright.

Same applies to Reef and Snipersub I think.
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12 years ago
I tested scenario 2, and it already works ideally. If you give any kind of attack command it will automatically default to SetTarget. A pene on hold fire will rotate the turret to aim at the grizzly and only the grizzly while you can safely move it away, and it will keep its target.
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12 years ago
We also need a unit facing command. Works like a move command, except the unit turns in place to face in that direction.

Units that can't turn in place obviously do not have this command (or ignore it)
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12 years ago
Ok, I tested scenario 1, and I was able to reproduce the silly behavior. Basically it happens when there is something blocking the line of fire of the battleship. It will try to maneuver to get to a position where it can fire, so it will try to move forward toward the target (spring units are pretty stupid that way, in that trying to get a better shot always means just moving closer), and end up losing the nice broad-side positioning.

If nothing is blocking its line-of-fire it will work fine.
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12 years ago
>> We also need a unit facing command. Works like a move command, except the unit turns in place to face in that direction.

I'm not fond of the idea of adding excessive amounts of interface commands just to help the players get around stupid unit behaviour. Preferably the unit behavior can just me made smarter. (SetTarget does this very well being integrated into attack command imho)

Perhaps battleship could be forced to broad-side before attacking in the unit script...
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12 years ago
It's not just the players. Unit AI can use the facing command. In fact, like Set Target, Lua will be using it more than players will.

A similar argument to yours could be made for SetTarget too. But once Set Target came on the scene, players and Lua started using it. And now you can hardly take it out without breaking a number of unit AI scripts.

Adding in Face Position command allows finer control for players who wish to expend the micro, and for scripts to use. But mainly the scripts.


While I will always support expansion of Unit AI in this game, the individual elements should also be available to players to use. After all, that is how you get the unit AI! It merely mimics the actions a player would do if unconstrained by micro.
If the players cannot test it to figure out how to use it, unit AI programmers will have no idea how to make it work.
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Licho is the one generally on a mad spree to increase the turnrates and acceleration of everything until facing and velocity of everything is totally irrelevant and units control like starcraft. Doing this to ships is, IMO, a travesty.
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12 years ago
Honestly, I don't mind better turning on units with autoskirm behavior and no turn-in-place... Autosmirm does stupid stuff with clumsy units. But I like low acceleration and I'd hate to lose that.
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12 years ago
allow some units to go backwards?
i found it improves mobility while keeping a "realistic" turnrate.
With complex walk animations there is the problem to play them backwards, but ships or hovers should not have that problem.
to stop units from going backwards all the time (looks silly), set reverse speed to ~75% of maxVelocity.
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12 years ago
snackuser> some BA tanks have this already.

Gunships do it - why not hovers?
For me, hovers and gunships should be the same in the matter of movement - except Gunships float higher and don't require a flat ground below them.

I think if we allow them to strafe, it would make the gameplay more interesting.
On flat land maps, they would be unique and not just a aggressive-unit factory of vehicles-like units.
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