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Lame planet Wars,,,,....

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CArankxDrEADx
4 months ago
Wow what a crap fest that was, as a new player wanting greatness for the game. The game has gone downhill since I first started playing. And as for that planet wars we just had ( LMFAO )lame.

I went to the bathroom and the game was over. The teams were stacked with pro's Vs Noobs. Good job on killing a great game. Balance is clearly needed. There should have been at least 33% CHANCE FOR every team. Regulation is required so there is some fun in planet wars. Not just a boring one sided match, over in a blink of a eye. GG
+5 / -8

CArankEtSuRii
4 months ago
It would be neat if lower ranked players had a place in planet wars where they wouldnt get stomped. But i guess you have to think of planet wars as more of an endgame type thing. I know i wouldnt want to face off against any purple ranked players myself and lose a major battle for the team.
For players new to the game who want to play online i recommend going to "battle list" and getting into the big team battles. just dont build any storages (unless you commander dies) then you dont have to worry about economy as much because you get a bonus for your allies economyas well as their excess metal. you can still play around with units see what works with what etc. and talk to more experienced players on your team to get tips as questions come up.

If you play matchmaking keep in mind this game has a bit of a steep learning curve. like all rts games there are situations where someone will throw a curvball at you and if you dont scout it and know how to immediatly switch gears and do what you need do with the specific factory you happen to be playing with you will lose so you have to take it on the chin and take it as a learning experience. I know it can be frustrating sometimes...
+1 / -0



AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
4 months ago
(edited 4 months ago)

You've packed quite a few complaints into a few sort sentences so it is hard to know exactly what you mean. That said, a feedback thread is required. Here are some issues I've noticed or heard.
  • Short round.
  • Imbalanced factions.
  • Imbalanced teams in individual battles.
  • Player skill is too important.
  • Player activity is too important.
  • Low skill players don't have much to contribute when there are many players of higher skill in their faction and online.

quote:
Short round.
The aim of HQ capture victory is to deal with lame duck situations by finishing the round when one faction is knocked out. I want to avoid situations where one faction cannot do anything to win, as it would represent 33% of the players. Trying to keep a faction in the game when it has no control of any planets sounds too janky. My thinking now is to make HQ planets impossible to capture. This removes issues around dealing with zero-planet factions.

quote:

  • Imbalanced factions.
  • Imbalanced teams in individual battles.
  • Player skill is too important.
  • Player activity is too important.
We are open to suggestions regarding imbalanced factions. In general it is very hard to know who will be active in advance. Balancing individual battles with elo leads to people throwing games to adjust their elo appropriately. Some attempt was made by the bigger clans to balance themselves between the factions. This planning is not enough to take unclanned top players into account or variable availability.
Perhaps imbalance can be mitigated by making skill and/or activity less important, but this is hard to do without leading to random feeling outcomes or an endless stalemate.

quote:
Low skill players don't have much to contribute when there are many players of higher skill in their faction and online.
We have a redesign of invasion launching, awaiting implementation: https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K-Infrastructure/issues/2132

Nobody who would implement it has enough time to do so. Comments on the new design would be useful as we want to figure out whether it is a decent candidate for a solution.
+3 / -0


DErankkatastrophe
4 months ago
(edited 4 months ago)

CArankxDrEADx since you first started playing? you mean since the day before yesterday?

CArankEtSuRii

i completely agree.

+2 / -0


CHrankConnetable
4 months ago
How can CArankEtSuRii be a vet star while having started 56 days ago?




+0 / -0

GBrankScurge
4 months ago
because he's da bomb.

My biggest criticism of planetwars during defense is, it's not obvious to me who is attacking. There is just a big "Defend" button at the top.

Let's say 2 purples and a gold attack. Two noobs see the defend button and press it immediately, and a skilled player presses defend too with no clue of who he's going into battle with or against. At least that's the information that was presented to me.

It'd be better if that information was shown before you make the decision.
+2 / -0

ZArankAstran
4 months ago
I feel Dread has some valid complaints.

I too remember my first Planetwars getting matched up 1v2 with 2 veteran Mumble Clan players. ROTFLstomp doesnt begin to cover it. It's deeply unfun to go into a battle that's hopeless and to get swarmed by a cloud of glaives when I'm still trying to figure out where my second Lotus should go. Or whether I should build a second Lotus.

On the other hand now that I'm a bit better, it's likewise unfun to make plans to attack important targets with higher ranking players, and then when I get to the battle I see they are not there. Instead, I have Noobster and Noobus Maximus at my side facing down purple and blue players. That's because the new guys just click on any button they see without waiting for a little direction.

That said: the energy and enthusiasm shown by the new players was pretty impressive. I've never seen so many names in fac talk before, nor had so many allies willing to take on impossible odds. That was cool. There were suggestions to raise the level cap for PW to something like 25 (by yours truly amongst others) but on further reflection we would be excluding the most enthusiastic part of the player base.

I think the solution is easy, and simple.

Each turn has TWO attacks and defences.One attack/defence is only accessible by players under rank 25. The other is only accessible by 25+.

The attack by the veteran players gains more influence than the attack by the lowbies, but this still gives a chance to the lower ranked players to have an impact and to play games they have a chance of winning in. Meanwhile the vets are happy because they are assured of at least a decent support companion in the fight.

Is this doable?
+7 / -0


DErankkatastrophe
4 months ago
(edited 4 months ago)

if i could double-upvote your post, i would ask for the opportunity to triple-upvote it ZArankAstran
+2 / -0

ZArankAstran
4 months ago
Wow, thanks, Katastrophe :)
+0 / -0



AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
4 months ago
Splitting the player pool in two sounds like it would exacerbate inactivity issues.
+3 / -0

NLrankmalric
4 months ago
I really think planet wars should have a clearer "objective" from game design perspective. We have multiple modes (campaign, casual, MM, coop) where does PW fit?

It was indeed very lame because to win meant to convince lower rank players not to join randomly.

Also, there was hard to explain why something matters, and how actions (even beginner actions) matter. For example: "hold this as long as possible you will block their good players".

Without a major re-design I will not play PW next time (besides playing few, was not nice what we needed to do to win - chat chat chat). With MM if I get in a team someone that I do not like to play with for one or two games, I can just stop MM. But in PW battles matter more, so you can't just "stop" (or you loose).
+2 / -0

NLrankmalric
4 months ago
Idea: to access planet wars might be required to play some campaign that explains the mechanics. I get why you would not want to do that for casual, MM but PW should be different... (or not? and we get back to the design)
+0 / -0


DErankkatastrophe
4 months ago
ye it felt pretty bad to tell some players please not to play...
+4 / -0

PLrankaragon
4 months ago
> Splitting the player pool in two sounds like it would exacerbate inactivity issues.

Allowing joining the high rank pool if there is not enough players available would alleviate this.


But it seems that what's needed is a way for faction leaders to be able to pick who fights in the battle. Maybe changing "attack" to "sign up for attack" + actually launching the attack by leadership would do the job.
+6 / -0

LUrankAnir
4 months ago
I totaly agree with PLrankaragon

The strategy part in planetwars is nearly unimportant at the moment. Leaders are nearly not needed, and their plans unnecessairy. I dont need to list all the other problems that have been mentioned.


Instead we need to look for solutions!

My proposition:
We should form a team, maybe like 1 responsible dev and a few more experienced players, maybe 1 or 2 from each fraction?, to overwork the whole system, like totaly. (Maps, goals, structures, ...)
Because thats obviously necessairy.
+0 / -0

USrankSteel_Blue
4 months ago
That is an excellent idea, having the attack being a join attack button, and having the final decision be done by a faction leader. in fact, the person deciding sounds like they would command ground troops in <Faction's> battles.
+6 / -0


PLrankAdminSprung
4 months ago
i got an idea to make planet wars less lame
[Spoiler]
+4 / -0

USrankPowerGuy
4 months ago
I can't speak for balance as I didn't enter, but I'd say that a bad PlanetWars is far from a dead game, considering PlanetWars was on hold for the longest time and only recently started hosting rounds again.
+1 / -0

NLrankBlackdutchie
4 months ago
So regarding the 'sign up for battle' list, then you need to also have faction leadership online. So I propose adding a tick box on the planetwars tab: "I am active". This way tabs can be kept on who is actively online for the faction, and who is just chatting or playing in lobster pots.
The tick should probably automatically untick itself and give a message somewhere on the lobby screen (where the planetwars box pops up?) after a certain amount of time, to prevent people from ticking the box and then walking away for hours (or from faction leaders currently embroiled in a 2 hour battle for a key planet from having to split their attention between sending people to fight and doing actual fighting).

With that plus the signup list we'd have a system where:

- Leadership is actively kept track of with the tick box
- If there are no leaders online, the system could fall back on allowing anyone to join anything, to prevent paralysis of the faction as a whole
- If there are leaders online, the faction is much more coordinated
- Games can be better balanced ('They're attacking us with singularity-level players, let's not send in our dwarves', or vice versa)
- Faction leaders are encouraged to give everyone a chance at leadership, because you want leaders online at all times, increasing investment/participation
+1 / -0

RUrankRawCode
4 months ago
such kind of learship will prevent anyone expect specific clan members from playing PW at all.

PW should have place for each player, not just clan members that vote as one and seize leadership of faction.
+1 / -0
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