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Balance of Jumpbots, buff pyro

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Jumpbots feel very weak. The Pyro costs as much as a reaver and goes down to a few glaives. It has the lowest hp/cost and dps/cost ratio of any raider. Jumpbots lack any kind of reliable light unit for harassment.

I think the pyro and moderator should at least have out of combat regen. As is, no one uses jumpbots anymore, and they fallen out of the meta as they lose in most matchups.

The Kodachi and glaive have disgusting regen, both cost way less than the pyro, and are both faster.
+1 / -1
hmm

Never seen a actually micro'd pyro lose to a couple of glaives. Jumpbots just need higher micro than other facs.
+0 / -0
6 months ago
Moderators absolutely do not need any form of regen.
+2 / -0

6 months ago
The real problem with the jumpbot fac is, atm they are somehow outclassed by spiders on every map where you could play them effectively. And Pyro feels more or less like a suicide unit for costs of a normal riot(which it basically is but with low hp) and jumpbots have no raider other than pyro.
+3 / -0

6 months ago
And they need tons of micro to be effectively/ way more than any other fac (only moderators work properly with fight command and every jump is a hard choice which results in being distracted of many other things)
+0 / -0
Jump bots always were a spec ops troll factory and they should stay this way - spec ops, troll stuff :D

Placeholder - to catch other trolls for further experiments
Moderator - to slow other trolls
Skittle - to blow up other trolls
Jugglenaut - when u are surrounded by trolls and they are everywhere, u need something more than a silly placeholder
Pyro - when u are in the mood to troll on ur own, dat's right it's ramp time!
Firewalker - it's cooking time!
Jack - it's not a good time to get out-trolled by porc, is it?

^^

fac has never been generalistic and always played mainly support and spec ops part... Feels ok
We already have cloaky and shields - two most generalist factories... Not every factory should be that flexible imo

What jump bots could REALLY use - is to buff their sides that are -supposed- to be strong, read: skittle
This unit been nerfed into oblivion with decloak radius., skittle is basically worthless right now - always explodes midair before it reaches the target
Either needs faster jump speed or/and smaller decloak radius or/and more HP

I'd also say that all units in zk should have an innate very-slow auto HP regen, maybe something like 0.2% of total HP/sec when not taking damage
+2 / -0
If you want to buff jumps, buff skuttle. A unit that is both raider and riot is something to be very careful about.
+1 / -0
6 months ago
We tried discussing that, nothing happened.
http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/27315
+0 / -0
6 months ago
pffff
+2 / -0
6 months ago
Pyro in the right hands and against the right targets can be overwhelming. Early pyros against lightly defended wind and mexes can virtually win the game on the spot. On the other hand I do agree that for the cost pyro is about as tough as wet toilet paper and later in the game it is virtually useless. Any sort of decent porc chews pyro up like bubblegum. What might be interesting with pyro is to reduce its jump cooldown by a couple of seconds to better reward micro?
+3 / -0
6 months ago
pyro has jump and is effective fire damage, making it faster would be better. if u give more speed to pyros they can outrun scorchers. speed it's the only thing they truly need to be more used in the game.
+0 / -1

6 months ago
I would not say jumpbots are weak. Their strength lies in unit synergy, proper deployment of complimentary porc and knowing the enemy factories weaknesses.

Skuttle - could use a buff (less decloak).
Toad - could use a buff (more DPS, more speed or less cost).
Constable - could use a nerf. The cost is way too low for what you get. Slow is too extreme.
Pyro - I don't have an answer - it's so situational and such a unit of extremes. I would happily take a weaker DPS but more survivable pyro.
Puppy - fine, though is it still AA?
Moderator - fine, does it's job (killing Reaver, Redback and Venoms).
Placeholder - fine.
Firewalker - fine.
Jugglenaut - fine.
Jack - fine.

Bonus: Things that I feel really make JJ suffer: Grizzlies, Cyclops, Recluses, Fleas, Planes, Fencers, Dominatrix
+4 / -0
JJ feel weak because theyr skirm looses to all other skirms,and most of theyr units die if you dont babysit them all the time because they can only work in synergy and are very weak alone.Its def a harder starting factory choice because it lacks cheap effective units like the glaive,ronin,reaver,conjurer.

Pyro can and will kill glaives on fight move,but if microed can kill large ammounts of glaives.I would not buff it in any way even the slightest of buffs to pyro would ruin entire raider ballance.Giving pyro autoregen would turn it into stuff of nightmares.
+3 / -0

6 months ago
firewalker on f-move works most of the time all the time.
+0 / -0

6 months ago
Firewalker prioritizing inconsequential targets is similar to the behaviour of Impaler. Sometimes it can be incredibly frustrating.

Imagine this scenario:

You have the firewalker selected and are clicking to fire directly at the middle of a spider or rover ball. Instead, the firewalker ignores you and begins to aim at the flea coming from the other side. Even as you click 100 times on that ball, you watch in desperate panic as that firewalker moves it's head against your commands and blows it's massive cooldown on 1 flea, forcing you to lose a brilliant shot.

Why the hell does firewalker do this?
+2 / -0
Presumably the target is outside of its current range, the flea is in range, and the Firewalker is not on hold fire. So it thinks it can take an opportunity shot before going on with its orders.

quote:
JJ feel weak because theyr skirm looses to all other skirms

What
+1 / -0
6 months ago
Pyros aren't raiders, they're raider/riot hybrids. You're paying for both.
+0 / -0
6 months ago
Good thing they utterly fail at both.
+2 / -0
6 months ago
they work okay as riot as long as you suicide them well enough
+3 / -0
Given that placeholder can crash planes, I still don't get why jugglenaut pulling tham straight to the ground doesn't give the ANY damage.

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+1 / -1
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