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AI challenge

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Hey,

I've tried this 5 times and failed. I've asked DeinFreund to try as well and he didn't succeed either, so I'm very curious if anyone can do it.

The challenge is simple:

map: Titan Duel
start factory: Cloak
opponent: 2x Hard AI

goal: win the game


It's easily doable with other factories like Tanks or exploiting dominatrix. I want to see cloakies start win.

PS: post the replays if you were close/had good game or did it :) Also I don't know the difference between brutal and hard - I'm used to playing vs 2 brutal on many maps, but my win rate is so low that I tried 2 hard - it wasn't one bit easier. It may be because I didn't play during the basic economy changes and what I'm used to ceased to be viable with uneven opponent count.
+1 / -0

2 months ago
there you go http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/724070?
+3 / -0

2 months ago
redo. show it´s possible to do it reliably. you werent against shields for example.
+0 / -0
yes I also feel that cloak + tank is the easiest u can get probably. I managed to do it however with some help from Sigero Bots B724123 1 on TitanDuel 2.2

Try dealing with ducks or god forbid - pyros on top with other raiders.
+0 / -0
I do not think that this inherently means that cloaky is underpowered (though I don't think you have claimed this either).

For example, in my experience in Brood War it is far more difficult to win against multiple bots with Zerg compared to Protoss, and somewhat more difficult with Protoss than Terran. Nevertheless the three races are fairly well balanced against each other in most "fair" scenarios.

When outnumbered, taking maximally efficient fights is typically a more reliable strategy than trying to win with tempo. Cloaky, like Zerg, is a more tempo-oriented 'faction', and will naturally struggle when tempo is a contraindicated strategy.

[Spoiler]

[Spoiler]
+2 / -0

2 months ago
I've also found that it mostly depends on circuit's randomly seeded factory and unit choice. Both due to it being an AI that's much better at using some units that others and it being 2v1, there would be a lot of back and forth as the unit selection changed.
+0 / -0


2 months ago
I could probably extend the campaign framework a little to allow start units to be placed, for min-challenges like this. Players would effectively be sharing base64 encoded json tables that could be fed into a modoption.
+1 / -0


2 months ago
I think why its really hard is because cloakies are bad at attrition, have inferior skirmishers to most.

Easiest factories you can get vs ai are cloakies (mirror) and tanks - because ai is bad at abusing their strengths and cannot swarm with expensive units and rockos are great against most of them.

Amph makes earlygame very hard due to duck vs glavie matchup Buoys also call for snipers because Archer is cheap fast riot that counters glavie swarms (snipe archer swarm buoy).
Jumpers make defending and counterraiding a hell because of pyros that always jump away and firewalkers later.
Shields should actually be on the easy side as well, but bandits are strong vs glavies, thuglaw is a problem and Felon calls for snipers.
Air - the ai seems to avoid air with just 2 factories - and it's bad with bombers anyways.
Hover - it's on the easy side as well - however halberds are hella annoying killing your defense and its hard to keep up attrition vs scalpel. Lance can be very annoying too.
Lveh - Scorchers fight even with glavies, Fencers make most porc useless unless u build Stingers and then you wait for Impaler. Overall quite easy matchup but you have to find and kill all impalers or say good bye to all porc. The most scary thing about lveh is the speed of their constructors.
Cloakies - all is good - scythers are annoying and hard to fix problem


With that said ai prefers to spread units to all places a little bie and that makes swarming their enemies with glavies easier even when the matchups are unfavorable.

Anyways the fact that it took me 7-8 attempts and Manu did it at 1st shows how big difference of a skill is there between us. Respect :)
+2 / -0

2 months ago
rush singu as first unit is only solution
+0 / -0
Well I intend to do it with every factory, now trying with amph and I have real difficulty as raiding lotuses with ducks sucks so hard.

Succeeded at 3rd try vs Amph + Cloakies (probably easiest matchup). 2 before that were vs hovers which quickly proved to be very good against Amph - speed, halberds, scalpels counter all that isnt grizzly and lance counters grizzly.
+0 / -0