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Builders give 0.2 metal?

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7 years ago
I noticed in games it says that builders are making 0.2 metal? is this a bug or do they actually make metal?
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{redacted}
7 years ago
Why would that be a bug?
Commanders make metal, factories make metal, caretakers make metal.. why builders shouldn't?
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7 years ago
Imo they should not make any metal .. this is just from remainder of "TA" stuff ...
Cons and caretakers should not produce metal.
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"they should not but they do" == its a bug!

but what you do without any ressources, no income but a builder? and no reclaim in range? is there a single "base income" of 0.2 m/e per player justified?
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7 years ago
Where does the metal come from?
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7 years ago
CZrankAdminLicho - It gives newbs a slight chance to get back on their feet if they completely screw up econ
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7 years ago
They should give a bit of metal and it's probably time to standardise it again.
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7 years ago
I think its timne to remove it. With communism it makes no sense.
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7 years ago
"I think its timne to remove it. With communism it makes no sense."

What about FFA? Technically, you could -after being destroyed- evacuate a single constructor and make a comeback hidden by a sneaky pete while the other players destroy each other...
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7 years ago
@Sotha - in FFA there's usually plentiful wreckage to get yourself back into the game. I'm with Licho - it's an anachronism, kill it. maybe I'd make an exception for labs (because we make all kinds of exceptions for labs), but definitely not on cons.
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Truth is, if you're down to even a handful of builders and can't access wreckage, you've well and truly lost. Even in FFA.

I think if anything, they need to make a bit of energy (perhaps a bit more than they do). That's what keeps people out of games more often.

Interesting note: When does it become more effecient to make cons than overdrive? Probably almost never?

I think we could also afford to shift a little more metal into what the factory produces, to encourage people to facplop, not reclaim their factories, and generally give a bit of a boost at the start of the game to stop that hard early stall (Would also work to shift it to comms, but they're already pretty important).
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Caretakers pay back after ~12 minutes. It's not as inefficient as you might think.
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{redacted}
7 years ago
quote:
I think its timne to remove it. With communism it makes no sense.

lol
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7 years ago
Well in game that already have 5 or more Singus in power grid, maybe making the 0.2 (caretaker/coms/etc) is more metal efficient that to add even more energy to power grid?
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A Rector costs 140M and provides 0.2 M income. So that's 700M per 1M income.

A grid being overdriven to +300 percent will add about 1.0 mex of output when you add one fusion. Assuming a typical mex spot making 2 M, then that's 500M per 1M income. So at +300 percent OD, adding fusions is still cheaper than adding Rectors. Of course, you can do a lot more with Rectors.

At +500% OD you get +0.7 mex per added fusion, which is 714M per 1M income. So at +500% OD you're better off adding Rectors than you are adding fusions, even if the Rectors just sit there and do nothing.

Singus are cheaper per E than fusions, of course. Adding a singularity doesn't become more expensive than adding a mass of idle Rectors until you reach +900% OD. Roughly. The idle Rectors are better because they come on line one at a time rather than having to wait until the whole singu is finished, but I'm not going to do the math to figure out exactly where the break-even point is.

And again, Rectors do lots of other stuff too that overdrive doesn't. The metal income is actually FOR FREE, which means it's ALWAYS better to make Rectors than it is to make power plants for overdrive.
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7 years ago
By way of comparison:

Two solars added to a bare mex costs 140 M and adds 0.8M income.

One Rector costs 140 M and adds 0.2M income AND CAN BUILD AND HEAL AND RECLAIM.
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7 years ago
And eat energy which you already stall.
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7 years ago
Some maps, there are trees. I sometimes forgo making 1 solar in favour of using my 1st builder to reclaim trees.
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7 years ago
Rectors make 0.15 energy, and cost 0.1 energy to cloak while standing still. They eat 0.5 while moving.

So its free on energy to have a bunch of rectors milling around.
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7 years ago
After reading this thread, I HAVE to do this next FFA. Get a massive econ, then spam cloaked cons in the corner.
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