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Faraday is strong

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33 days ago
It's very strong - amplifies your defense immensely and it's almost the only good cheap solution against some units like Jack/Scythe/Halberd/Raven. I'm wondering if it's not TOO strong for what it does - one nerf it could have is shorter range so it's a bit less effective vs air. It's best vs short ranged units so it being short ranged is not a big nerf - while you want it closed vs skirmishers so it can survive longer.

Do you think Faraday is too strong now? I am not sure but I want to know opinion of others.
+0 / -0
raised faraday is even better vs air =P .. the main strength vs air is its aoe as bombers converge to a tightness to hit targets.
even if newton also had a defence mode it would be worse then a faraday because i agree faraday is op vs allot of targets. 2 raised faraday traps a litcho and 3 raised faraday is a litcho nightmare but is expencive.

i used to place them behind walls then i learned..
sink the faraday -2 levels down and it cant even be targeted by 90% of the units in-game until it pops up and starts to stun you

if faraday was allot weaker you might see them as often as frontline newtons
+0 / -0
33 days ago
Haven't we been through this already?
+1 / -0

33 days ago
What would happen if you kept its stats the same, but you doubled the price?
+0 / -0

33 days ago
It would be unbuildably rubbish.
+3 / -0
33 days ago
For me the problem of faraday is the unit design itself.

Faraday is probably the defense that better scales. Its main desvantages are managable:

- Range: Not so much a big problem because of armored state. Making repairs quite viable.

- Not effective imediatly: More faradays reduces this.

- Engagement from multiple sides: More faradays reduce this.

- Can be hit by art while firing: Micro can keep the unit shut (And ready for ambush)

- Can be burst damage killed: Wait... faraday is burst too! O_O

- Doesn't kill by itself: When you see it alone? Also lock time is big enough to bring some raiders

Plus this is the fact that you can stunlock stuff with 2~3 turrets and you have probably the most OP stuff in the game.

For me rework possibilities are:

1) Buff HP but remove the armor, so that is range vulnerable AND gives gauss it's niche back (really? Why it has this?)
2) Convert to slow damage to reduce it's scaling (and making it a little easier to balance, as it won't work as a binary)
3) Buff it but send it to 800 metal-cost, so it can't be massed easily, but also to make repair harder.
4) Convert it from area damage to a single target in rapid-fire


Off: Hum... building faradays with wielders looks like a good strategy... faraday buys time for wielders to kill. And combos with blitz.
+1 / -0
32 days ago
I haven't found Faraday too strong so far. If anything it's a bit weak, but servers its role just fine.

That said, I'm just used to much worse in terms of EMP defenses. C&C had an EMP turret that instakilled any planes it hit, shut down any non-infantry ground units it hit for a few seconds, shot a barrage of rockets that could be microed to shut down multiple units at once, possessed slight splash effect, had comparatively better range on ground than Faraday and several times better range against air, had a conditional buff that allowed it to shoot one barrage well outranging every single artillery unit in game, was relatively beefy and had slight autoregen to boot. Oh and it also dealt damage unlike Faraday.

Faraday feels a lot more manageable and a lot less like a complete shutdown in terms of air than what that turret was.
+0 / -0

32 days ago
quote:
4) Convert it from area damage to a single target in rapid-fire


finally.

+5 / -0
Thanks USrankRandomX . I've noticed that we reiterate the same subjects in different topics when they are ~month apart or more. I don't see anything wrong in that, however we could continue in the previous thread.

I just wanted to raise the discussion about Faraday - it is quite strong that people start to notice it and build often. That's nice as so far this unit has been mostly ignored. However, it being more prevalent raises the balance discussion. I am not sure if it is too strong.

If anything I'd make it stun for more than twice as short and fire twice as fast - in the end I think that bringing stun times to float from integers is a good change for more units (see blitz). Stunlocking the unit permanently is very very strong.

I think the Faraday is in a good place. I'd consider also other iteration of it that has: slightly less hp (~200), less cost (250 -> 220), less range (~10-15%) and higher frequency of shooting with less stun time. Or possibly twice as much CD but convert to 1 sec stun + full time disarm.
+0 / -0
32 days ago
the Faraday is good so how he is!
please dont touch it and "update" its to broken!
+3 / -0

32 days ago
I have to say that the idea of replacing Faraday stun damage with slow also seems interesting to me. Likewise, disarm damage instead of stun would also see, decent as it would effectively allow the same defensive advantage in terms of disabling attackers, but it would not result in paralyze that leads to unit getting hammered by the porc till it dies.

As a middle ground option, Faraday could also do both disarm and slow for closely similar effect.
+1 / -0
Here's my read on why Faraday is currently in vogue.

Pros:
- High alpha and dps
- High aoe
- Perfect accuracy
- Good range
- Arty resistant

Cons:
- Doesn't kill anything on its own
- Low stun time

These combine into a tool that is a perfect fall-back position for an army build where your main source of damage is anti-unit artillery and skirms.

High alpha, range, perfect aim -> defeat bombers, then your army finishes them.
High aoe, perfect aim -> defeat raiders, then artyskirms kill them
Arty resilient -> enemy artyskirm can't just siege them
Good dps -> works vs assaults as well (and then artyskirms kill them)
Low stun time -> This only matters vs assaults, but just build two and you're okay.

If you compare Faraday with Stinger, the differences are that
+ Stinger actually kills stuff
+ Stinger has better range

- Stinger is less than perfectly accurate
- Stinger has no AoE
- Stinger is not arty-resistant

Under conditions where your main investment is your treasured mob of artyskirms and your enemy is mainly artyskirms, Faraday successfully fulfills more roles.

Faraday-protected bases camped with mobile units are extremely resistant to artilery as long as the dps-source mobiles can avoid being hit directly:
- Shooting the faraday with arty does nothing
- Shooting the mobiles causes misses
- Assaulting directly gets your force stunned and killed by their mobiles.

TL:DR IF you want to make Faraday less cancerous, just remove the armor. If it actually dies to artillery like porc should*, it stops being the ultimate word in artyporc meta.

The alternative of turning it into a single-target stun laser rebrands it as antiheavy and gives it stunlock. I'm not sure that you really want that.
+3 / -0


32 days ago
It shouldn't be effective against air imo.
+1 / -0
IMO Faraday is the only good point defense AA vs bombers and therefore its not reasonable to nerf it vs air unless you also nerf Likho and Raven,or buff hacksaw to the point that hacksaw can reliably stop bomber spam from destroying a singu/nuke etc.

If you nerf it vs ground units then you need to nerf scythe.

The idea of removing the armour seems good though means its still good at defending bases vs bombers scythes etc but cant just sit in arty fire forever.

+3 / -0
5 days ago
Thread rez for idea: Faraday deals 5000 EMP damage for a 4 second stun on a 12 second Cooldown. Faraday can pop up to stun near instant as is now, but the close animation takes 3.5 seconds. It stays closed when on reload.

This means it takes 3 faradays to permastun something. It can't chain something for like a 75%stun time. Cause it's closed so much we can nerf HP to like 1500, cause it's stronger we can nerf range like 50 elmos.
+0 / -0
Tbh after looking up the turret's recent history, i think that it could just have its health reduced somewhat.

Two latest changes to Faraday's balance were (NB, "latest" here means "two years ago" for the first change!)

1: Aug 16, 2017

  • Cost 200 -> 250
  • Health 1000 -> 2200 (It is supposedly beefy)
  • Damage 1000 -> 1200
  • Reload time 2.8 -> 2.4.

2: Mar 11, 2018
  • Reload time 2.4 -> 2.6 (pre-buff was 2.8)

Reducing its health somewhere lower than the 2x hp/cost buff would greatly increase its killability IMO.
+0 / -0


5 days ago
I was thinking of writing a post, but it turns out I already wrote it: http://zero-k.info/Forum/Post/207745#207745

I am not sure why I said Faraday is supposed to be beefy. It's health and EMP uptime make it particularly good against assaults (which already have trouble vs. defenses), so perhaps health is due a nerf. This would be a partial revert of the previous buff.
+0 / -0

5 days ago
would this be bad?
+0 / -0
5 days ago
why would faraday be beefy? possibly to hold itself against shieldballs a bit better. Even now I don't think people can hold off big shield balls with large numbers of faradays effectively, but am not sure.

It might be slightly too strong at the moment, but probably overrated...People might just switch to stinger, lotus and stardust which actually deal damage, and use razors to tank.
+1 / -0

4 days ago
"hold off big shield balls" is pretty much only possible with ddm anyway.
+2 / -0
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