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Title: MM 445: 1v1, Rank Singularity
Host: Nobody
Game version: Zero-K v1.8.3.1
Engine version: 104.0.1-1435-g79d77ca
Battle ID: 846765
Started: 4 years ago
Duration: 12 minutes
Players: 2
Bots: False
Mission: False
Rating: Competitive
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Team 1
Chance of victory: 92.5%

GBrankPRO_Dregs
Team 2
Chance of victory: 7.5%

unknownrank1RAVEn
Spectators
unknownrankChomolungma

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4 years ago
Omoiyari's Prefire kodachi widget on display here.

Can also be seen on Multiplayer B845909 2 on Otago 1.1 to a smaller degree.

Personal opinion is that, whilst tanks do need something to give them a competitive edge in 1v1, this is a little over the top. Thankfully, I'd already been through the pain of knowing that reaver+knight invalidated tanks (up until the mino phase). I don't think Randy got the same memo.

This is 100% a "performance enhancing" widget getting optimal use and micro reduction out of the kodachis to a level that a human player simply cannot perform (and still maintain any reasonable expansion APM etc).

Thoughts?
+0 / -0
4 years ago
FIrankterve886 's *

https://github.com/zenfur/xcom-zero-k-techrepo/blob/master/PreFireKodachi.lua
+1 / -0
4 years ago
Have you ever used attack move? Then congratulations your units are employing micro beyond human ability. Only difference is that kodachi unit AI doesn't implement this widget yet.
+4 / -0


4 years ago
Do you think that predictive pre-fire and retreat should be implemented into base widgets?
+3 / -0
I think it should be made into default behavior for this particular unit, as it's otherwise quite bad at anything but early rushes. No other unit comes to mind that could use it.

Maybe claymore could employ it too.
+2 / -0
4 years ago
anyting with aoe benefits from prefire,
+0 / -0

4 years ago
I'd be fine with this widget being added, but unless/until all players have it I think it creates an unfair advantage for only some to use it.
I also expect GF would tweak stats for Kodachi too if this widget was default, as I imagine it is currently balanced for the no widget Kodas.
+3 / -0

4 years ago
I agree with GBrankPRO_rANDY and unknownrankTinySpider.
Someone should not be allowed to use widgets that are not available by default at all. For example, I have seen that some players know the factories at the beginning of the match or where the artillery is positioned from the shot fired. I hope AUrankAdminGoogleFrog will intervene and prevent this disparity.
+2 / -3
Time to disable local widgets?

This widget essentially gives Kodachi more range with a few caveats. I do not want to include it as-is because it spam commands, is dependent on latency, and it sometimes misfires (see Kodachi vs the jumping commander). There are two essentially equivalent actions that could be taken:
  • Work on the widget until it is polished enough to be a default replacement of Kodachi targeting AI.
  • Block widgets and increase Kodachi range.
The second option is significantly easier.

The difference between Attack-Move and this widget is that the former is reliable and unaffected by latency.
+1 / -2
quote:

- Work on the widget until it is polished enough to be a default replacement of Kodachi targeting AI.
- Block widgets and increase Kodachi range.

The second option is significantly easier.

Here's an even easier one: jettison the anti-smart unit.
+2 / -0

4 years ago
I'd hate the decision to disable local widgets. I think in the long term it'd kill creativity and unexpected improvements for the game such as original attack move command.

It also goes against the zero-k/spring tradition to embrace technology/tinkering developpers instead of censoring them.

Why for example global build command widget is available to everyone but disabled by default... It does not make sense that it would be available only because it's non local.

If anything, if you want to enforce "fairness" in some special occasion, make server option to disable local widgets for events like tournaments.
+9 / -0

4 years ago
Regarding artillery positioning it may be a decent nerf to Bertha to make it reveal on fire so there is no need to scout it. Add Cerberus, Lucifer to the list.
+0 / -0


4 years ago
I guess I should day something since I created the Widget.

Yes, it is clunky with its command spam and I am ashamed to say that I don't know how to polish it further into something that could be integrated into the base game. I simply don't know how to do that.

My widgets are pretty much limited to the available Lua Callins to simulate very simple, yet often occurring scenarios to force the unit act the way I would like them to in most cases, such as my FelonTargettingAI avoiding hitting armored targets, and even that results in loss of the games own targetting priorization and introduces some problems with ping.

Still, despite Kodachi Prefires clunkiness, it still gives very noticeable advantage, making using it advantageous over not using it even if it might screw with things like jumping commanders or slightly missplaced shot due to ping despite my best efforts trying to compensate it.

I knew making all my Widgets public would cause some outrage as they would become more common and thus more noticeable, but I would be really sad if it resulted in disabling local widgets altogether. I think it should be given that any Widget that does semi-decent job would give at least some kind of advantage, as otherwise the Widget would not even exist in the first place. Most of this is aimed towards lowered APM usage or increased reaction time, like with Kodachi preFire making the Widget do the attack predictions for the player, resulting in increased range. It seemed that automating that was somewhat given, considering most other units also used to predict shots before the retreat advantage was removed from the game.
On the other hand some actions, such as SweepAttack Widgets are just impossible for player to perform effectively while chasing cloaked enemy units without the help of the Widget.
+1 / -0


4 years ago
Is sweep attack the widget that allows all the kodachis to fire all at the same time to create a wall of flame?
+0 / -0


4 years ago
PreFireKodachi is the widget that does that. SweepAttack widgets are mostly for just saturating the are in front of the unit with attacks in order to find stealthy units such as scythes.

PreFire Widgets are responsible for firing weapons in an attempt to hit nearby, visible enemy before they are in actual range.
+0 / -0
Widgets are how the game gets better and less annoying. This type of thing is doable with enough frantic clicking, but if I wanted that I'd play Starcraft.
Widgets even the playing field between the strategic thinkers and the frantic clickers, and I think the former are what we should be encouraging in Zero-K (they are also what we have historically encouraged).

If people want to use widgets they can (I'm not aware of any decent widgets that aren't public), if they don't want to they don't need to.
+2 / -0


4 years ago
Line of fire is just settarget with alt-drag
+1 / -0


4 years ago
If local widgets get disabled I think all you're going to do is push out less t ed technically inclined people out of using widgets and create a secret underground cult of ai makers or split the playerbase.

It saddens me to even see local widgets being disable even be remotely mentioned as a plausibility. If a widget breaks the game somehow, how is that any different to someone with high apm equally breaking the game? That just tells me that maybe that unit is a little poorly designed and should be tuned a bit or reworked/dropped. Giving into people complaining about local widgets is no different than giving into people complaining about godde by banning godde.

As far as I'm concerned local widgets are "equalizer, bitch" cards and should be celebrated and applauded. A lot of hard work goes into making this stuff. The creator should be allowed to use it so long as it isn't blatantly cheating or crashing games.
+1 / -0
the creator could also put that efford into learning the game itself.

"As far as I'm concerned local widgets are "equalizer, bitch" cards and should be celebrated and applauded."

if this is meant to be a competitive game i don`t get where this is coming from.

Anyway, if you want to allow widgets i think they should be really fully implemented in a stable. It is a bit adventurous to call things that you get to via a link in a forum-post "public".
+2 / -0


4 years ago
Widget disclosure would be nice, especially in ranked games. I've said it before but if the only reason top players are top is because of a multitude of helpful widgets, I'm going to be concerned because not only am I blind to that fact, I'm unaware of what it is they're using to perform so well.

People say they're for leveling the playing field but without disclosure, that doesn't mean shit.
+2 / -0
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