Amphibious: Clam and Grizzly

It is apparent that those two units have a major impact on the land game and are heavily under priced.

The clam has everything: high HP, is amphibious, increased buildpower (7.5) and can resurrect.

Biggest problem with the Clams (or the resurrect ability overall, either on the old shield bots or now on amphies) is that it basically gives you 50% more reclaim from wrecks. The "produced" unit is at the front instantly, like building an offensive turret, but the turret is mobile this time.

If you look at the resurrect ability in other mods (ie XTA or BA) there rezzers have a major weakness. XTAs necro costs about 2K (!!!) metal. The Balanced Annihilation rezzers have little to no hitpoints and take enormous amounts of energy to produce. (hard to compare to ZKs standardized costs)

Their high HP allows them to resurrect in mid battle, and put up defenses while under attack (like the welder). Add to that the regeneration when submerged. But that has little influence on the land game.

Question is what you want to keep about the clam and what to nerf. Keep the abilities as they are and tweak either cost, hitpoints, speed etc.? Or nerf abilities (ie reduce buildpower to 5) and keep other stats?
Please discuss!


I'd suggest to reduce the clam build power to 5 like all the other basic cons while keeping its 210 metal cost. That additional 50 metal is for the resurrect-ability and the amphibious movement.
Also their hitpoints could be reduced a bit to the level of other constructors. They are extremely sturdy for a construction unit.

Or to throw in a bold idea: Make it a very weak and fast unit. Give it about the same HP as a cloack-con and good speed like the duck. It will die easily to AoE (napalm bombers) but can spread out fast and run away from battles near the wrecks.

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Now, about the Grizzly.

Everyone seems to agree those are too strong. I am part of that group ( :P )
I am not sure what the idea behind the grizzly is. On land is on par with the other breakers (Sumo and Goliath) In water fighting land they are unkillable. Their enormous HP-regen in water and 10.000 hp makes it so you will rarely loose them. An sich, that is not a problem, but it is for 2000 metal.

So we have kind of the same question: nerf costs or abilities?

I'd simply suggest drop HP to 8000 and remove regeneration, see how it plays out. The amphibious lab already has a good constructor, use that to repair the bear no need for more free build power.

I don't see how grizzy is OP at all. It has its uses. It very easy to kill with raiders. How the hell is it OP lol. for a 1000 metal unit its a good longe range unit.

The grizzly got a buff to 600 range from 550, that was the most recent change.

It either needs less range, or less HP. Either work just as well IMO. It either needs to be a close up dodge-in-dodge-out high HP killer like Gollie, or a ranged attrition style skirmisher.

Clam is really expensive now in res e cost and has lower HP, and is vulnerable to AoE. It's not nearly as good as it was, res is no longer a no-brainer. I still don't like it and what it does to sea (amph cons were always the best cons anyway for the sneakiness) and want to see it removed but I don't think it's game-breaking on land. There will be a few really late game situations where you have buckettons of E and ressings low M cost is going to be too strong, but you'll have so many cons by that stage that AoE can take care of that.

bunch of clams at least insta die to sumo jump, see at ~75% of B94613 13 on Coastlines_Dry_V1

Probably all the Grizzly needs is a longer cooldown after firing before it can submerge, keeping it committed into battle and taking hits.

Always the problem with the Clam was that it was both the resurrector and one of the toughest bots. Seeing a mass of clams resurrecting on the front and shrugging off fire was immensely frustrating - I mean, that tight clump of Clams was such a ripe target, but they would just tank the damage.

But I haven't fought them really since the last round of nerfs, so hopefully it's better already.

I still think the Djinn should be re-specced as a jumpbot and moved to the spec-ops lab. The Clam and the Djinn serve the same function - getting units up at the front, while the Spec-ops lab needs a way to deploy firewalkers, archangels and sumos at the front line, and to get moderators and firewalkers up cliffs.