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Title: [A] Free For All
Host: Nobody
Game version: Zero-K v1.8.4.5
Engine version: 104.0.1-1486-gf266c81
Started: 3 years ago
Duration: 89 minutes
Players: 6
Bots: False
Mission: False
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Team 1
Chance of victory: 0%

ITranksalbix
Team 2
Chance of victory: 61.3%

RUrankizirayd
Team 3
Chance of victory: 15.9%

RUrankindaled
Team 4
Chance of victory: 17.8%

USrankJasper
Team 5
Chance of victory: 5%

RUrankrewdrfe2
Team 6
Chance of victory: 0%

ITrankHadows

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There was some discussion about stunning superweapons in #zkdev, so here's an illustration to the point i was making.

One player produces a superweapon. The two other surviving players take different strategies to deal with that:

- One player makes two Missile Silos and starts mass-producing and firing Shockleys to keep the superweapon down, while also assembling a sky-blotting amount of Ravens to kill it.

- The other player just starts making a Starlight.

Both of these strategies kind of work. But only one wins.
+0 / -0
3 years ago
so why dont player shockley sham shockleys at the starlight? it's pretty easy to triangulate it's location.
+0 / -0
if he can shock hit cant he also eos it ?
while he does so he can keep track of what the starlight rusher does

is the issue that the starlight rusher is sitting afk while the shoker is doing hard liftting,
in which case its shokers initiative to deal with superweapon, he moved early offering and should be punishable the further he goes on without correcting the trajectory
ideally he should wait to see where the super hits first, while the shockleys and ravens are on stand by

i am probably missing the point of your post ? is starlight rusher the winner, if he does win he is just getting carried
should the shocker not exist ?
+0 / -0


3 years ago
You can't Eos efficiently through Funnelweb. You can Shockley.
+2 / -0
3 years ago
shockley to bring the shields to half hp then spam eos. even if you just monospammed eos you can still make cost sin supers are su expensive
+0 / -0
My point was that, given the current state of Funnelweb, Missile Silo does not really counter any superweapon even if you have the luxury of having it in range and stocked, because you end up paying pretty hefty amounts of metal without the possibility of securing a kill, because while Shockley can penetrate, Eos can't.

And that getting your own superweapon is comparable in cost while superior in every way.
+1 / -0

3 years ago
Ye mass funnelwebs seems can be countered only with other supwep and silo useless. Current funnelweb promotes porcing. Interesting if there is possible mass so much funnels that starlight cant break through? With area shields i think its possible. Funnel area shield link or not?
+0 / -0
Funnels don't link, and stop charging for 10 seconds after taking damage. Starlight does its damage 30 times a second and thus can damage 300 funnelweb shields per 10 seconds and prevent them from charging ind3lefinitely, while also draining them. After that limit is reached, some Funnelwebs will be able to start charging, but Starlight will still be able to outDPS that charging. 300 funnelwebs cost 900 000 metal though. Aspis is better at this.
+1 / -0

3 years ago
And how about nuke vs funnel shield interaction? Can it stop nuke or nuke just pass through fully charged shield? I know that nuke aoe range is still enough to kill funnel if it even are detonated vs shield.
30 funnels can stop full meteor strike (300x1600)?
+0 / -0
3 years ago
Funnelweb can be really hard to counter in FFA. Offensive or defensive funnel just feels bad.
+0 / -0


3 years ago
Was Funnelweb easier to counter when the shield was 23000hp (and thus once the shockleys started going through, so would the next eos)?

@Anachid: You can't tac missile a faraday-aegis-walled superweapon either (unless you're fairly close). (You used to not need the Aegis but then shockley got buffed to be able to change building height)
Even without Funnelweb, it is not in general possible to take down a well defended superweapon with just a missile silo.

Watching the replay, it looks like USrankJasper won because he defected while RUrankizirayd cooperated.


USrankJasper : Are you referring to a pure Funnelweb ball or a mixed army (e.g. ultimatum, reavers, fleas) that includes Funnelwebs?
What's the FFA counter to a conventional shieldball?
Merlin+Funnel meta worse than Paladin meta?
+0 / -0


3 years ago
My feel is that the problem with Funnelweb in FFA is that it does all of this:

- Protects you from artillery, which is extremely common in FFA given much higher aversion to casualties
- Madly power up ultimata
- Reclaim and colonize at warp speed
- Directly assault enemy positions with flash porc
- Directly thwart many types of enemy assaults with flash porc
- Provide information hiding via stockpile
- Protect your superweapon

Sure, a ball of normal builders does some of these. A bunch of paladins does some of this better. But a ball of funnels does all of this, so when you take out your big thing, your assaults and your builders instantly become a bunch of shockley-busting shields.

Kind of like if you could morph glaives into locusts in 1v1.


quote:
Watching the replay, it looks like USrankJasper won because he defected while RUrankizirayd cooperated.

Yes - but given izirayd's investment into Shockleys (multiple quad-packa and a stream of smaller launches) and Ravens (one bombing run having 80 of those!) ended up costing more than the Starlight, perhaps cooperating on his own SL would have been a better choice?

quote:
You can't tac missile a faraday-aegis-walled superweapon either

This is true, but the defender would have to pay for their wall separately, while a funnelball defense works as a conversion from your standing army.

---

Of course, provided that it survives. Perhaps FFA is going to become about killing the funnelball before it has a superweapon to protect. But it seems to me, aside from gross failures by defender, the list of things that work is really short - tremor, shockley, paladin.
+0 / -0
Add to that list
- Powering up snitch
- Repair
- Powering up porc stingers / annihilators
+0 / -0
3 years ago
ulti with transport or lob
bertha
superweapon
gnat and eos
+0 / -0
3 years ago
prehaps we can have a missile or weapon that does contunious status effect to drin funnels?
+0 / -0