Is it just me or have they become defining unit in most big games recently? Seem to just snowball into instant death machine for anything in range. Can we make them have to stop to fire, or maybe deploy like tremor / emissary / bulkheads to make them less easy to ball up?
+13 / -0
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Impalers have been my pet hate for months now. I've complained about them at length and how they suck. People be like: "nuuu you're just a lobster." Well, yeah. But impalers still suck.
+3 / -0
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Maybe I should just make PR with some changes to make it less oppressive and see if it gets in lol.
+2 / -0
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Personally, I think if we made (reverted to) all artillery able to move and fire simultaneously, similar to impalers & envoys, then it would balance impalers somewhat.
+0 / -0
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My impression is that Impalers are mostly a large teams issue. In those games they can be pretty oppressive. It's not clear to me that it is fixable without essentially owling Impalers in smaller games. Impalers are most often doing their business from a long distance in relative safety so I do not think making them deploy to fire is going to make much of a difference, other than making them easier to snipe with your own Impalers... and that interaction doesn't sound like something that it would be good to promote.
+3 / -0
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Considering it's one of heavy artillery pieces and that it fires in a big arc over cover it should be forced to deploy to fire. After all it has more accuracy and range, comparable damage to Emissary with projectile arc of Tremor, both of which need to deploy to fire. Emissary costs the same as Impaler but has with less range and barely more DPS, it also uses a normal projectile arc that lets terraform stop it's shelling, but hey at least it has tiny AoE for hitting those wobbly radar dots! Tremor costs more than twice what Impaler does and is effectively just a functional Quake when it comes to terraform with bonus for shutting down static shield balls. By the time Tremor deploys and it's first shots actually land Impaler has already shot several times and depending on what it's targeting probably killed it already.
+2 / -0
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quote:
Impalers are most often doing their business from a long distance in relative safety so I do not think making them deploy to fire is going to make much of a difference, other than making them easier to snipe with your own Impalers... and that interaction doesn't sound like something that it would be good to promote. |
Then why do other artillery have to deploy that are not as safe to use? Emissary, Bulkhead and Tremor all must be closer to the front. It's an apm tax when they are forced to deploy. Being forced to deploy also would make impalers more vulnerable to cloaked raider/lance/emissary/silo/lickho/cerebus/jack drops - basically everything that has any hope of hurting them. They are rarely even a factor in 1v1 games so why is that even a consideration?
+1 / -0
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quote:
Then why do other artillery have to deploy that are not as safe to use? Emissary, Bulkhead and Tremor all must be closer to the front. |
Because those units needed to be weaker, and since they are close to the front, having to deploy is a meaningful weakness for them. I don't think having to deploy would be a meaningful weakness for Impaler in any situation other than Impaler mirror wars. It is a similar reason to why Bertha does not need energy to fire while Cerberus does. Bertha is built so far behind the front lines, and so much closer to where your economy is, that it simply would not have a meaningful effect on the game to give Bertha that requirement. quote:
cloaked raider/lance/emissary/silo/lickho/cerebus/jack drops |
I don't think an Impaler that has to deploy similarly to Tremor or Bulkhead is going to be meaningfully weaker to any of these things. quote:
They are rarely even a factor in 1v1 games so why is that even a consideration? |
I didn't say 1v1, I said smaller than large teams. Also with a unit like Impaler the fact that it is not built often in 1v1 does not mean it is weak or that its existence in a non-owled state does not affect the game. Building a bunch of porc against rover in 1v1 is potentially not a good idea because Impaler exists, so people don't build the porc, so there isn't a good reason to actually build Impaler.
+1 / -1
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Because badger sucks now as a result of the recent speed nerf and the metal is better invested in impalers. Bring back the uniquely fastest arti! And maybe buff tremor speed too. It takes a century to bring it to the front, only to be sniped by impalers. The point isn't to make it much stronger; it feels pathetic trying to move it.
+4 / -0
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I agree with Tremor sucking and a large reason is Impaler. A static Tremor lasts exactly 2 seconds against a cloud of Impalers and then it is turned to scrap. They outrange it by such a large margin that even on the highest spire Tremor is still short of Impaler range. The fact that Tremor has to stop to fire means it is dog treats vs Impaler. Sad that a 1600M unit is virtually useless against a 700M unit.
+4 / -1
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Proposition: New type of shield unit/structure which is an upward facing only "umbrella"/flat type shield designed specifically for threats from above. It is extremely resilient, but has a very small area that it can protect. Can protect key targets from impaler, raven, silo? Also has to be fairly expensive as to address the issue in team games, but not 1v1 as much.
+7 / -0
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I like Dregs' proposal. That means horizontal fire is not affected (and probably slightly curving fire) but the bullshit hail of death doesn't instagib stuff anymore. Well ... it will later in the game when there are enough of them but at least there's a chance for key stuff to last longer than 3 seconds.
+1 / -0
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Is impaler supposed to work against units that could dodge their rocket? I would rather have units intelligently move a bit (for many units there is no impact of a small dodge), which should make impalers less of a "death machine".
+2 / -0
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Stopping to fire would make a huge difference. How can you possibly say otherwise!? It makes them vulnerable to tacnuke which would make cost against a single Impaler! If they are cloaked and you try to bomb them, you know where they are since they can't move. They can't drive to the edge of their range, fire a shot, then run away again. Etc.
+4 / -0
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quote:
It makes them vulnerable to tacnuke which would make cost against a single Impaler! |
The deploy time would have to be much, much longer than any other deploying unit for them to be meaningfully vulnerable to Eos. quote:
If they are cloaked and you try to bomb them, you know where they are since they can't move. |
The deploy time would have to be much, much longer than any other deploying unit for this to be meaningful. quote:
They can't drive to the edge of their range, fire a shot, then run away again. |
This is true but I don't think it is a huge difference to how Impaler plays overall.
+1 / -0
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I made the changes to the unit script that I think make sense. Here is a comparison video showing the difference. quote:
The deploy time would have to be much, much longer than any other deploying unit for this to be meaningful. |
Have you seen how long it takes tremor to move and how easy it is to tacnuke or bomb them. (or impaler them for that matter)
+5 / -0
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quote:
My impression is that Impalers are mostly a large teams issue. In those games they can be pretty oppressive. It's not clear to me that it is fixable without essentially owling Impalers in smaller games. |
From my experience it is also the arty of choice in some porcy FFA games. Other than silo, Impaler is the most reliable way to bring down a Desolator from afar. It can also kill static shields, cloakers, caretakers, even behind terraform with precision that no other arty has to offer. Imho it outperforms othet arty, and at the same time is hard to counter as its range and mobility allow it to remain safe. Even safer when used with area cloaker which seems popular way to use arty recently.
+2 / -0
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I agree with the make them deploy sentiment of some posts.
+1 / -0
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Just give Impalers a 90-95% speed reduction while their gun/weapon is deployed. And if that isn't enough then a moving reload difference like Ronin has could be added.
+0 / -0
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