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Default idle constructor behavior

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PLrankZenfur
2 years ago
I think that idle constructors should seek for simple jobs within their manouvering settings - first repair, then reclaim, then help building stuff. Battle units attempt to fight when idle - according to their setting - holding position, leashed manouvering or freely roaming. Why don't constructors try to be useful when idle?

They should still interrupt this automatic behavior whenever given any direct order or when E-stalling (as all of those auto orders make no sense when E-stalling) and should still be selected by "select idle constructor" order.

This behavior would be similar to nanos on patrol, but without patrol. I guess this can be done manually by issuing the move order and then fight order, but when the fight order finishes it will be idle again until further notice.

What do you think? Should this behavior be default? I'm aware of global build command that takes it to the extreme by being zealous in managing your constructors for you and distributing the jobs, but usually you don't want your constructors to migrate somewhere when not paying attention, so a more conservative middle ground would be an improvement. This "keep trying to be useful when idle" fits ZK philosophy for me and I lack this feature. Should it be added to the roadmap of future features?

Also bonus question: is it possible for constructors to do the constructing on the fly - when passing something damaged for example to repair it on the way while in range?
+2 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)
quote:
What do you think? Should this behavior be default? I'm aware of global build command that takes it to the extreme by being zealous in managing your constructors for you and distributing the jobs

Modding GBC to have an intermediate option sounds like it would work best.

I would super dislike my cons deciding by themselves on where to spend my resources, which your "repair, reclaim, then assist" algorithm seems to do.

quote:
usually you don't want your constructors to migrate somewhere when not paying attention

I'm not sure how your proposed mode avoids this.

quote:
Battle units attempt to fight when idle - according to their setting - holding position, leashed manouvering or freely roaming

There is no real difference between maneuver and roam. Maybe there ought, but there isn't.
+1 / -0

PLrankZenfur
2 years ago
Well my proposed solution is supposed to work together with constructors' move state. If hold position then can build/assist but only without moving. Manouvering - can repair/reclaim/assist but only within leash range from the original move orders' resting point. Roam - no leash, but only start and search for jobs in close range, the same as manouver.
+2 / -0

USrankLawesome9
2 years ago
I think this is a great idea!, but in case someone didn't want this at all, maybe there should be an option to just turn it off all together?
+1 / -0

PLrankZenfur
2 years ago
Hold position setting on constructors would be pretty much disabling it.
+2 / -0
DErankBrackman
2 years ago
I recently made a widget that does it. It's not perfect, but feel free make a better one.
+2 / -0


GBrankdyth68
2 years ago
Something that does 90% of what you want is already in the game: https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/blob/master/LuaUI/Widgets/unit_auto_reclaim_heal_assist.lua

Just needs enabling. (I use it all the time)
+0 / -0


AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)
One of the most consistent things I've noticed about new players is that they don't want units to act by themselves in most cases. Maneuver vs. Hold Position seems to be an exception, but even in this case they prefer that units leash fairly tightly. New players don't have a feel for efficiency, so they would much rather be quite inefficient than pay the price of being slightly disoriented, and this tradeoff seems inevitable for behaviours designed to remove inefficiency by adding an automated action. Each extra default unit behaviour is another thing to learn, another barrier between going from units seemingly wandering around randomly to feeling in control. So I do not think behaviours like those proposed here should happen at Level 0 customisation.

I don't think there is space on the UI for this to exist at Level 1 either. The leading suggestion is to disable the behaviour on Hold Position, but then all constructors would have to be set to Hold Position by default. I am wary of having mixed states built into the defaults to this extent. Besides, what about armed constructors? The obvious answer is another state toggle, but I'm quite happy with how few state toggles are shown by default already.

This sounds like a fine feature for Level 2. I recall Caretaker patrol existing at Level 2 already.

quote:
Also bonus question: is it possible for constructors to do the constructing on the fly - when passing something damaged for example to repair it on the way while in range?

Any unit AI can be written, if that is your question. Mechanically though, constructors cannot "fire on the move". Movement essentially costs BP. I don't want to take on the mess of a UI required to properly deal with constructors firing on the move, let alone what would happen to how the game plays.
+2 / -0
USrankTechheadZero
2 years ago
quote:
Any unit AI can be written, if that is your question. Mechanically though, constructors cannot "fire on the move". Movement essentially costs BP. I don't want to take on the mess of a UI required to properly deal with constructors firing on the move, let alone what would happen to how the game plays.

I've contemplated it might be cool if Wasps (and Cranes?) could strafe while working on things but I don't really see much utility out of it unless they happen to strafe the right way to keep up with a moving repair target. It'd mostly just end up a useless thing that looks cool.
+0 / -0