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Unlimited metal exploit with resurrect?

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2 years ago
Is it possible to get net positive metal + unlimited reclaim by exploiting the fact that resurrection stalls reclaim?

I noticed this in a match where a player had about 15 athenas resurrecting a scorp while about 15 shield engineers were reclaiming. Each engineer was getting positive metal and the scorp wasn't going to be fully reclaimed or resurrected anytime soon. Seemed like an infinite source of metal.

Yeah I know that it takes a lot of E to res something, so it takes away overdrive.. but with overdrive having diminishing returns, isn't there a point where this would be totally exploitable?
+0 / -0
2 years ago
"Also, if a unit was partially reclaimed earlier, you will need to refill its Metal wreck beforehand."
http://zero-k.info/mediawiki/Resurrect_Command

In watched case, one player refilled metal and the other got it. Zero-sum metal game.
+2 / -0

2 years ago
when rezzing something, which has not "full metal", your athenas must spend metal first before rezzing can start/continue. in the described scenario, metal is just transferred from the athena player to the shieldbot player
+2 / -1

2 years ago
Ah, so not an exploit to get more metal overall, but you can still steal all your teammates' metal!
+1 / -0

2 years ago
You can do that with any nanoframe. No need for athenas.

You can even do it on opponent nanoframes. I've seen a few 1v1s where a player tries to build a LLT to kill mexes and secure the expo only to have the opponent reclaim the LLT as it gets built. Plyer 1 started the LLT first so would have won the "race" to porc, so player 2 opted to reclaim player1's LLT instead of trying to build his own and come late.
+2 / -0
recalaiming a rezzurection project is much likely to get you a moderator action. reclaiming allied nanoframe definately will get you moderated. reclaiming enemy nanoframe is not forbidden btw ;)
+0 / -1
just shows how bad rezz as a mechanic is.

- it`s hard to notice you are reclaiming something someone else is trying to rezz. I just usually give cons a large circle-reclaim, then i go back to micro or whatever.

- rezz is superiour to reclaim on paper, but only if it is sufficiently fast. I don`t know how often someone tried to convince me that i should not reclaim that pala-wreck on front because they could rezz it in like 10 minutes - as if they would ever have the time for that.
+1 / -0
There's interesting things to know about how the reclaim, build, and resurect(both the metal giving and energy giving parts) function.

Nanolathes have multiple modes to think about in this calculation. The "Normal" mode is generally when you are constructing things and the numbers work as-is on face value. I assume in the engine this is because between the constructor and the construction 1 build power equals 1 build time(a spring feature that's largely ignorable by the design of zk) equals 1 metal(and energy). The normal mode works for all construction in the game because every unit that can be built adheres to these rules. Another mode is reclaim. Reclaim is actually different than building, for reasons I don't know because I don't know how to look at source code right. But know that when you apply 10 build power as reclaim to units, you apply 10 build time but only yield 5 metal back. Resurect is a different mode which has 2 parts, if it's a full wreck or partially reclaimed. If a wreck is partially reclaimed, it applies the yield metal of reclaim, at 1/2 the rate of stated construction and drains that value from your economy. If the wreck is full on metal, then it applies the full build power rating in energy cost.

I got to testing Athena's vs constructors in a lobby. if you have 1 welder(7.5) and 1 Athena(15) both working on a wreck(reclaim and rez), there is equilibrium and no drain to your economy. Which means when you reclaim a wreck being rezed by someone else, you are depositing metal directly in a teammate's income. When you reclaim an allied structure, though, you are evaporating metal into the atmosphere forever lost to your team.

If you want the infinate metal through reclaim, though, open a zombie lobby. You can farm wrecks and they will resurect no matter how much metal you drained out of them, so you can kill them and take their metal again.
+2 / -0


2 years ago
This is because athena resurrects at half speed by design.
+2 / -0

2 years ago
Thanks for the in-depth answer, USrankAdminSteel_Blue!
+0 / -0