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Title: Battle
Host: GBrankmatthewwightman
Game version: Zero-K v1.11.1.0
Engine version: 105.1.1-1485-g78f9a2c
Battle ID: 1582529
Started: 13 months ago
Duration: 34 minutes
Players: 6
Bots: False
Mission: False
Rating: Casual
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Team 1
Chance of victory: 57.2%

TWrankKitty116065
FRrankHelwor
GBrankOrangeSky
Team 2
Chance of victory: 42.8%

EErankAdminAnarchid
GBrankdyth68
UArankHedkeaf

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"people don't make cloak much" - gf
"it's spammed by blue+" - anarchid

The amount of cloakers made is limited primarily by the micro ability of the players on the team.
And when everyone has them it's a micro/qwop fest with high randomness.
+0 / -0
[Spoiler]
+1 / -0
Also, as a reply to this in spectator chat:

quote:
fiendicus_prime <ALLY> I think we're trapped with 16v16 because it's the main game mode so of course everyone who plays likes it.
Dave[tB] <ALLY> devs could do something about that but they dont seem interested

On a few occasions in the past, the devs have tried to move the community at large towards smaller teams games, and on every occasion that I know of, we/they have (figuratively) had our fingers badly burned. All such attempts were poorly received by a large part of the community and quite a few admins.

Something like Planetwars which strongly encourages small teams games to be played for a specific event seems plausible. There is definitely interest in Planetwars, but it's not an easy thing to make work well.
+5 / -0

13 months ago
AUrankAdminAquanim I didn't know of specific attempts to wean people off 16v16 but I believe that it did not / would not go down well. I'll keep arguing for small teams - I know that we'd need to win "hearts and minds" before anything could change.

As for the cloaking, it was largely chaos. I don't think people found it especially fun to play, but also I don't think it's representative of normal use.

EErankAdminAnarchid does keep mentioning cloaked Snitches being a specific issue.
+0 / -0
CLOAKED SNITCHES...

LANCES...

AND JUMP BOTS...

THE MOST OP STRATS (IN THAT ORDER)

#LOBPOTLIFE
+2 / -0
AUrankAdminAquanim : I can say that as the player is was used against it had quite an impact.

Stumbling around blindly and frantically trying to micro close encounters and fighting movement UIs pretty anti-fun.

We also had later games where a player fed me because they thought my ball was mostly lance with a bit of scalpel+mace rather than the reverse. I don't think he had any realistic way of knowing otherwise.
+0 / -0
Personally i felt very limited by APM and that the western flank needed more cloaksnitching vs the abominable shieldball. Lichos needed less APM and were in my cached escalation path, but clearly not as optimal.

quote:
EErankAdminAnarchid does keep mentioning cloaked Snitches being a specific issue.

I think they're an essential role at this moment.
+0 / -0
So i decided to watch the replay because i was kinda tunneled in it and it gets mentioned

[Spoiler]


quote:
I think this game says more about cloaked Snitches than it says about 'tactical cloak'. At the very end of the game north team makes a big push under cloak but this seems like as much a 'strategic' usage as a 'tactical' one.

Overall, i both agree and disagree. Cloak is omnipresent in this game, both tactical and strategic, and barely any engagements happen without one party having been cloaked. Consequently, fog of war is total, and the whole game runs on clairvoyance. But also indeed, snitch is pivotal and mandatory.

quote:
As for the cloaking, it was largely chaos. I don't think people found it especially fun to play, but also I don't think it's representative of normal use.

I'm pretty sure it's normal use for kitty and helwor, in no small case because it's hyper efficient in pot. This is just what happens when you remove most players who don't know how to use it, or don't want to.
+5 / -0

13 months ago
quote:
Something like Planetwars which strongly encourages small teams games to be played for a specific event seems plausible. There is definitely interest in Planetwars, but it's not an easy thing to make work well.


Interesting would be idea about planet wars events where is special small team room created with battle like 3 vs 3 or 4 vs 4. With random mission or battle. With goal to defend or attack. Each player who participates in this battles would get some special planet war battle points and who have enough this battle point that player can create also such event. Plus these events are regularly generated by computer. New ladder table is added for planet war players score. If counter expires then 'Brutal AI' is added in game in free player spots. So even if there is not enough players planet war will continue.
+0 / -0

13 months ago
quote:
The amount of cloakers made is limited primarily by the micro ability of the players on the team.


Amount of cloakers is only limited by resources. Especially in big cluster games..
+0 / -0


Fixed some of my dumber maths mistakes after recording this. Can actually now properly rotate towards events.

Also Ivand/Sprung have updated the engine, so one day will get attacker unitID on unitDamaged, which will definitely help framing.
+6 / -0