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Title: [A] Teams All Welcome #1
Host: Nobody
Game version: Zero-K v1.14.8.0
Engine version: 2025.06.21
Battle ID: 2489096
Started: 21 days ago
Duration: 12 minutes
Players: 17
Bots: False
Mission: False
Rating: Casual
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21 days ago
we ought to disconnect nightwatch after this one
+0 / -0
Well, either force equal players or find a better way to balance players slot for slot than making sure team's average elo is the same. But how many times was this point raised?
+1 / -0

19 days ago
To solve this we probably need to create a list of games where the balance clearly gets an uneven team wrong. I think there will be patterns emerge of why the balancer is getting it wrong.

It matters more in smaller teams.

I think there are a few things affecting it in confusing ways.


- Silver players and above will win games. Without them, it's very hard to a team to win.
- Very weak or very strong players have an outsized impact. In a very small game the very weak player particularly has an outsized impact, while in larger games the very strong players have an outsized impact.
- In small teams, purple players and sometimes blue can use an extra commander extremely effectively.
+1 / -0
18 days ago
I feel like there almost needs to be a secondary metric for "activity" for low elo players for balancing in sharp situations. There's a huge difference between a 1400 who builds stuff and just has terrible micro, fight management, etc., and a 1400 who builds a bertha at the start of the game.
+0 / -0

18 days ago
quote:
a secondary metric for "activity" for ... player... balancing


Unfortunately, that requires players to play the same way every game, and noone wants that burden cast upon themselves.
+3 / -0
15 days ago
I don't think it would matter for anyone above like 2k elo, but having a way to measure e.g. tendency towards frontlining would help a lot I think.
+0 / -0

15 days ago
Bar has multiple elos - 1v1, small team and large team. Could also be a partial solution.
+1 / -0
I notice a concentration of high variance players on Team 1 here, with Team 1 having a (current, unfortunately post hoc) average +- of 253 compared to Team 2 having an average +- of 190.

There's no mathematical basis for balancing teams for even whr uncertainty; the errors average out regardless of which teams the high variance players are on. But from a perspective of sharing the frustration fairly, it is perhaps worth balancing for even variance between teams albeit weighted an order of magnitude less than even rating.

As far as balancing for frontlining tendencies goes, this game transcends those. The decisive period of this game (~2:30 - 5:30) had six players on team east (KS, DF, WF, TB, SB, Br) focusing on three players from team west (Rh, BP, ktdm) while team west had two players who were on the frontline but disengaged and porcing up well short of the midline without any visible enemies in front of them. (GO and JB) Meanwhile, on the backlines, Steel_Blue was using planes to support the concentrated attack on Rallehop while VexCollective's planes rendered only negligible support on that front - backliners are not interchangeable in terms of front line impact.
+0 / -0