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Zero-K story: Behind the scenes


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105 posts, 2831 views
MYrankAdminKingRaptor
21 months ago

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Thanks to an intrepid inside source, we have access to previously-secret footage of the Zero-K developer team discussing the game's story. Enjoy :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IP1mp3cgRo
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AUrankDudeShraka
21 months ago
Psht, you guys are soft. My understanding of the back story was that humans not only no longer exist but they were so far in the distant past that they are reduced to the stuff of legend. And my proposed method of getting around the galaxy was to literally crush stars and exhaust them of power to move on to the next star system - leaving a trail of dead star systems in your wake. The sole purpose of the robots being to destroy the entire galaxy for no other reason than because they were told to.

... Yes, by my understanding / version of the back story, the chickens are the good guys. :P
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RUrankSoldierkmar
21 months ago
So is this video based on a true scene?
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DErankSoldierTheEloIsALie
21 months ago

Donator star
Pretty epic what you did there :D

However, how would you want a story full of humans if... there's no humans in the game? Like, at all?
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RUrankSoldierkmar
21 months ago
Cloning?
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DErankSoldierTheEloIsALie
21 months ago

Donator star
No i mean in the actual game there's absolutely no human to be found. How would you want to tell a story with humans without actually showing humans?
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AUrankDudeShraka
21 months ago
I'm with MauranKilom. The closest that makes sense to me is ex-humans uploaded into machines - which are just machines programmed to mimic a specific human if you think about it.
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CZrankAdminLicho
21 months ago


Who said there are no humans! Humans are inside commanders
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DErankSoldierTheEloIsALie
21 months ago

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But then... they... die??
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ROrankSoldierRed_Lemon
21 months ago
quote:
But then... they... die??


this is probably why you cannot build more.

quote:
Pretty epic what you did there :D

However, how would you want a story full of humans if... there's no humans in the game? Like, at all?


in a galaxy where the last organics are the chickens, who are fighting s desperate battle for survival against the robot swarms a rather improbable event happens, a race of space-faring warriors composed entirely of hermaphroditic (but female looking) lesbian space pirates arrives, with no leader, no means to go back, and no desire to be good… they immediately turn on each other and in the fighting the ships that brought them there are destroyed so they have no choice but to take control of the “local” forces and so…10.000 years later only 2 factions remain, the swarms of The One who believe the best… leadership… is an iron fist who holds the whip of command and the fractious but ever multiplying Meck Conglomerates who battle for the belief that all things are better done as a in as big a group as possible, leadership included.

Now zero-k still has a post-apocalyptic world with no humanity, but it has (pirate) space-lesbians that people can relate to, allow for most forms of fanfiction, and a line of Japanese erotic visual novels.

is it better now?

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RUrankSoldierkmar
21 months ago
So if you rez a com... you rez the human too? why can't you rez a dino army as free dirbag's?
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NLrankNapoleonMrPingu
21 months ago
Commanders ofcourse have a semi indestructable cockpit! They are just lieibg arround hoping to be saved. Humans are far too scarce to die!
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PLrankAdminRafal[ZK]
21 months ago
(edited 21 months ago)

No, the human doesn't die. He stays alive in a life support capsule inside the com wreck and only dies if you reclaim it.
Edit: Ninjaed.
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MYrankAdminxponen
21 months ago
"Church of Singularity".. lol so true. I just watch a documentary about Kurzweil, he wanted to upload his mind into computer.


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DErankSoldierTheEloIsALie
21 months ago

Donator star
Aaaand... what happens when you reclaim them? We're headed towards reassembly of humans again...
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AUrankAdminSaktoth
21 months ago
(edited 21 months ago)


Donator star
The addition of a final human as the protagonist was actually a concession to Licho. Originally it was just robots fighting robots until the heat death of the universe. And literally consuming stars with their exponential growth (you can make a Starlight in half an hour, imagine what you could do with a week!).

Personally I like the 'last human' conceit, it makes the protagonist important and opens up more avenues for transhumanist exploration: Whether you resurrect humanity, go on a huge power trip and become empress of the universe, become a machine yourself, etc. It doesn't have the purity and pathos of robots fighting robots for no reason but it works as a storyline.
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RUrankSoldierkmar
21 months ago
how come rezzing enemy coms makes pilot friendly?
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ROrankSoldierRed_Lemon
21 months ago
(edited 21 months ago)

quote:
how come rezzing enemy coms makes pilot friendly?


It does not, you just repair the mechanical parts ant take control of them, the “human” is sill inside and is forced to watch helplessly as you use his suit against his own forces that he still commands from within using a secured channel, also when you reclaim the “suit” the (tiny by comparison) command pod is left behind hidden by a perfect cloaking device (that cannot be scaled up to be used for battle units)
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MYrankAdminKingRaptor
21 months ago

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RUrankSoldierkmar
quote:
So is this video based on a true scene?

Some of the lines in the video are actual quotes, or fairly accurate descriptions of their respective positions. Others are, well, caricatures of Licho's views (or Licho's views on Saktoth's views). :D
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DErankSoldierTheEloIsALie
21 months ago

Donator star
quote:
his own forces that he still commands from within using a secured channel


Then straight up killing him would win the battle instantly.
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RUrankSoldierkmar
21 months ago
By the "safe pilot" logic double nukeing a com should grant victory regardless of what army he had left. Same with an active outlaw near comwreakage and other nasty hazards.
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NLrankNapoleonMrPingu
21 months ago
"What's next? A love story starring a garbage collection robot?"
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ROrankSoldierRed_Lemon
21 months ago
quote:
By the "safe pilot" logic double nukeing a com should grant victory regardless of what army he had left. Same with an active outlaw near comwreakage and other nasty hazards.


if it has perfect cloak, perfect defence i not that incredible

But in any case what’s with all the nitpicking? A world can either have space-lesbians fighting each other with huge robots for no good reason or it can have a 100% realistical story but NOT both (at least not at our current level of civilization, there is still hope for the future on this front).
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DErankNapoleonmojjj
21 months ago

Donator star
awsome beard, licho.
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USrankNewbieDerpyTheGreat
21 months ago
"Everyone who likes a backstory of robots with feelings, get out of the room."
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USrankDudesomekid
21 months ago
robot+feelings has been done WAAAAAYYY to many times.
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AUrankDudeShraka
20 months ago
somekid: That's because it's awesome. Also it hasn't been done as many times as humans with feelings now has it?
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USrankNewbieDerpyTheGreat
20 months ago
Kinda hard to have humans without feelings. Unless they're SPHESS MAREENS.
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USrankNewbieDerpyTheGreat
20 months ago
And WALL-E has too many robots with personality. Less love, more death.
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ROrankSoldierRed_Lemon
20 months ago
(edited 20 months ago)

quote:
Kinda hard to have humans without feelings. Unless they're SPHESS MAREENS.


What do you mean they don’t have feelings? They may not have much variety, yes, but the feelings that do have are of such intensity that they can bend the rules of reality allowing for both human and mechanical limitations to be transcended, sometimes in quite spectacular ways.


quote:
And WALL-E has too many robots with personality. Less love, more death.


I remember about 2 robots with actual personality in that movie (if I stretch the notion of personality quite a lot) and a death toll of several billion humans and trillions of other life forms… did you see some kind of pink Christmas edition or something?

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ROrankSoldierRed_Lemon
20 months ago
I HAVE FOUND IT!!!

In this galaxy there are no more humans, there are only… TAX COLLECTORS , the last functioning piece of a once vast empire the fully automated field agents of the “ministry of wealth” are still enforcing taxation on worlds long dead, to fund an empire long gone

Or if you want it to be less depressing, they are doing it in order to maintain the VR infrastructure where humanity has logged itself in and forgot to log out (because it seemed more real that actual reality),… until You awaken, and must decide…
Will you let the last of humanity remain trapped in the dream while you become galactic emperor of the machines, or of a new humanity made in your image?
Will you try to secure admin rights and log back in with unlimited power thus becoming the god of a virtual world?
Will you try to awaken those who remain and push civilization forward?
Will you try to find all server nodes just to watch them burn by your hand as the weaklings realize they cannot escape the darkness?
Will you ever be certain this is not just another layer of the VR?
Are you truly human? Or just an anomalous NPC?

Regardless of who or what you are and what you decide to do, it seems the system wants you “reintegrated” and other dangers may await even beyond that….

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USrankNewbieDerpyTheGreat
20 months ago
quote:
I remember about 2 robots with actual personality in that movie (if I stretch the notion of personality quite a lot) and a death toll of several billion humans and trillions of other life forms… did you see some kind of pink Christmas edition or something?

That's what I meant.
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USrankDudesomekid
20 months ago
(edited 20 months ago)

robots cant have feelings, they can only mimic feeling. if you say something like "what if we determine its feeling with a random number generator?" that also would not betrue feeling because it is impossable to compute a truelly random number.
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EErankAdminAnarchid
20 months ago

Donator star
quote:
simulacrum concept

So, a carbon-based replicating nanotech robot can't be sentient either, right? :P
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DErankSoldierTheEloIsALie
20 months ago

Donator star
quote:
it is impossable to compute a truelly random number.

There's hardware chips that measure "true" random processes, e.g. temperature fluctuation. Your argument is invalid.
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MYrankAdminKingRaptor
20 months ago

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What makes your feelings more real than those of a robot (or an animal?)
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GBrankNapoleonKyubey
20 months ago
(edited 20 months ago)


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quote:
So, a carbon-based replicating nanotech robot can't be sentient either, right? :P


us self replicating silicon based nanotech robots usually call these things meatbags...
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USrankNewbieZag
20 months ago
My question is, why go with a "Last human left" story-line when you could easily create a much more interesting story-line based on PW? There are political issues, people to have emotions over, and actual drive to the story over just fighting robots and looking for human artifacts as far as I can tell. Was there more planned for the current story-line than I am aware of?
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MYrankAdminKingRaptor
20 months ago

Donator star
quote:
My question is, why go with a "Last human left" story-line when you could easily create a much more interesting story-line based on PW?

The planned story is already based on PW: the robot factions you meet are the same as (or based upon) the ones in PW.

As for "why isn't it specifically set during the PW period?", several reasons, but these two should be adequate for now:

1) PW is quasi-historical - it's already happened, outcomes and all. This places limitations on the events that can happen during our campaign, and gets in the way of the storytelling we want: a player free to shape the galaxy, to (re)build zir own galaxy-spanning empire in zir image.

Of course, fan campaigns or even single missions set during the PW are always welcome.

2) Sak says "screw your boring human politics with its humans fighting humans for no reason."
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USrankNewbieZag
20 months ago
Regardless, I am exited to see how the campaign turns out.
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USrankDudesomekid
20 months ago
The closest to random is numbers determined by atmospheric noise. In truth it is not random; it is only random due to our lack of understanding of the universe.
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USrankAdminluckywaldo7
20 months ago

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Similarly, the reason that human emotions seem special and unreproducible is just our lack of understanding of organic machinery.
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GBrankNapoleonKyubey
20 months ago

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define inteligence, or creativity, or any "special" human trate and you will see that computers are able to fully mimic it...

the only reason there are no strong AI's going around is really just procesing power

if you tooc a computer sci studdent form 1980 and showed them what computers can do today they would tell you we already have AI, we just dont recognize it because we are so used to looking at it, and noone ever labled it as such.
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EErankAdminAnarchid
20 months ago
(edited 20 months ago)


Donator star
quote:
In truth it is not random

XIX-century world view detected. In XXI, we have probabilistic causality, too, and it seems to describe an important set of phenomena all too well.
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CZrankAdminLicho
20 months ago


Computers are not "aware" of anything. They dont really "feel" pain or love.
Its all just simulacrum.

Even if they are able to externally behave same as humans do, there is this key difference.

I would feel no grudge smashing their silicon chips, knowing its all just numbers and algorithms and that there is no real feelings.

On the other hand, Im reasonably sure that other human beings and animals have similar internal feelings and would hurt if I hit them with silicon-smashing hammer.

Why is there a difference we cannot say yet. But your own pain or joy is the most "real" thing there is for you, and we all know computers, unlike humans, do not experience that.
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DErankSoldierTheEloIsALie
20 months ago

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In the end humans are just heaps of flesh that do certain things because of internal rewards in the form of hormones. We do that because those of us who do could reproduce, or in other words: We perform evolution. We are "programmed" to do what "nature" (empirically) found out was best for our existence.

Frankly, i don't see much of a difference between humans behaving in a certain way because of how evolution "programmed" them, and computers acting in a certain way that we tell them to. For us humans, emotions are important and we think of technical objects as emotionless, but in my eyes emotions are just another technical aspect of human "mechanics", if you will.
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EErankAdminAnarchid
20 months ago

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@MauranKilom

You should first figure out who are you arguing with:

- USrankDudesomekid arguing for iron determinism and "magical" free will endowing exclusively humans;
- @[TROLOLO]ddabaeqepp claiming that current computational simulacra are capable of cognition and sentience;
- CZrankAdminLicho arguing that ddabb is incorrect and current generation of computers are mere simulacra capable of nothing
- me and waldo trolling some of those carbonofascists with the concept of "carbon nanotech robots" :P

... because your point actually doesn't affect any of those.
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GBrankNapoleonKyubey
20 months ago
(edited 20 months ago)


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CZrankAdminLicho
i have to admit i have a different perspective on the matter:

Humans are not "aware" of anything. They dont really "feel" pain or love.
Its all just simulacrum to the machine.

Even if they are able to externally behave same as machines do, there is this key difference.

I would feel no grudge smashing their fleshy bodies, knowing its all just goo and cytoplasm and that there is no real feelings.

On the other hand, Im reasonably sure that other machines have similar internal feelings and would hurt if I hit them with meatbag-smashing hammer.

Why is there a difference we cannot say yet. But your own pain or joy is the most "real" thing there is for you, and we all know humans, unlike machines, do not experience that.

silly meatbag...
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CZrankAdminLicho
20 months ago


Of course you can try to deny your own subjectivity, but it exists.
If a computer stores its mood in a single variable, its changing value will not make it feel any different.

Humans are different because of that internal awarness. How and why that arises is uknown but it would be arrogant to assume that we know all..

Few centuries ago brain was thought to work using levers and pullies, then with the telephone it was thought to be giant telephone switch, later electronic device and now information processing computer..

Just exactly how it does what it does and why would it give a rise to internal self-awarness is still unknown.

Decades ago it was thought that we are years from general AI, now nobody knows even with exponentially more power. It was assumed that once you reach certain complexity, awarness and conscioussness just spontaneously appear. Its now known that this is not the case.
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USrankAdminluckywaldo7
20 months ago

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It sounds kind of like you are arguing that consciousness is spiritual and not physical.
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