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Super Units Balance

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With the Rafal/GoogleFrog topic about the Det monoculture in FFA, i think it's time to talk about the balance of super units again.

Starlight: DPS 3333 + 150 = 3483; Cost 35k; near 1k DPS for 10k metal.

Zenith: DPS 1429; Cost 30k; that 1k DPS for 20k metal, that only half of
Starlight!

Both have same range and HP, but for the cost Zenith should have 3000 DPS, even if you think is "spread fire" is a advantage (i think the concentrated fire of Starlight is better), a bluff to at least 2500 DPS is need for it to not be so much behind Starlight.


Disco Rave Party, cost 32k, IT NEVER USED, only trolls or noob build it, it NEED HIGH TRAJECTORY like Behemoth.
After that we can talk about balancing it further, if become OP we nerf something, if still weak bluff something else.
+1 / -0


11 years ago
quote:
bluff something else.
+2 / -1
11 years ago
Or simply nerf starlight to make others super weapons usefull.
+1 / -0
quote:
Or simply nerf starlight to make others super weapons usefull.

30k units are mean to end the game, no to become some Tech 2 like thing....
+1 / -1
i like zenith more then starlight, cause they are sexy

but 20k zenith seems good
+0 / -0
11 years ago
Zenith is a troll "weapon" too, its point is to send troll amounts of metal to enemy. At the point anyone can afford zenith everyone can afford shield spam.

Zenith should be like Planetary Devastation from Naruto: a single but 'really' huge meteorite on reasonably long recharge. So it would work as anti-proof nook which for the cost would be quite balanced.

Disco, despite being positioned as a troll weapon, is very effective for medium and large map control because it is unrealistic to build huge walls everywhere in time. And walls can be destroyed in a variety of ways.
+2 / -0

11 years ago
quote:
it is unrealistic to build huge walls everywhere in time


lolcannon has in its lolvolver a terrorform bullet, there is no point in walls anyway.

you cannot hide. you cannot flee. lolcannon will find you and kill you.
+2 / -0
11 years ago
Personally i just build the one i like the most on that moment. Ye i know starlight is better but i dont really care. If you finish it you win 99% of the time no matter what superweapon you made.
+0 / -0
11 years ago
quote:
you cannot hide. you cannot flee. lolcannon will find you and kill you.


Last time i did see one get used it did WORSE that Zenith vs shield spam.
+0 / -0

11 years ago
quote:
Last time i did see one get used it did WORSE that Zenith vs shield spam.


beware of the noobs, as they dont know about power of micro.

i find your lack of faith disturbing.
+0 / -0

GBrankSab
11 years ago
DRP must never get high trajectory option or it would be unstoppable.
+0 / -0


11 years ago
quote:
DRP must never get high trajectory option or it would be useful.


Fixed.
You would still be able to stop it with some shieldspam.
+4 / -0
Yeah it already have a terraform shot, i just want it to have "LOS" and shot at the place i command it to shot, even if it will not hit that place cause a wall/mountain/etc...

It sux when i command it to shot and it do nothing, at least remove the LOS requirement for it to be able to shot, with time (terraform shot) it will get there anyway.
+0 / -0


11 years ago
Afaik DRP, Behemoth, Tremor and Bertha already had their los requirement lifted.
+0 / -0
So why when i order it do shot at some place (inside that range) sometimes it refuse/do nothing?

Any way to force it to "try" and shot even if something in the way?

Test game: http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/193955 (speed it up cause i set speed in game to 8.0)
+0 / -0

GBrankSab
11 years ago
isnt drp more difficult to stop than starlight though...
you need terraformed wall+razors kiss on top as well as shields... starlight only needs 30 closely packed shields shields to be stopped..
+0 / -0
No @Saabir, like @Rafal[ZK] and me already say, shieldspam will still "stop" it.
It's probably = or worse that Zenith vs Shieldspam.

Starlight is the best vs shieldspam of the 3.
+0 / -0
Yeah but DRP shots penetrate the shields... killing them slowly... in a long game on sandcastles 2, drp is win..
+0 / -0
No, it's not, it's only shot that penetrate is the emp (Blue Shocker), and if you lucky it will only emp 1 or 2 shields was shields spams most of time overlap even the emped one are still protected, so in the end it will still not work.
Also shot are not accurate, it difficult for 2 shot hit same place, and even in the rare case one shield die, it's easy to replaced cause the time between something like that happen again will be very long...
I have see it build there sometimes, it did never work.


If you have see a game where it did work vs shieldspam, plz post replay.
+0 / -0
Quote @[DOOP]fortaleza> 30k units are mean to end the game, no to become some Tech 2 like thing...

Yes, you win by draining the enemies strength over something like 5-10 minutes and by let him send a metal stream to you (if games are really that porcy that you need super-weps)

Slow is really strong against shields (EMP has only 1/3 damage, but slow still 1/1) and usually more damage - could be buffed on super weps.


Previously DRP and Zenit could be easily countered by a faster-to-build det.
But now we need to see how the endgame is balanced with new shields.
+0 / -0
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