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Cloaking Mech Unit Concept

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This is a unit I've been kicking around in my head for a while. Cloakbot doesn't really need any more units, but there is a gap in it's lineup. Specifically, it's lategame is kind of weak and Sniper/Scythe, which is a great lategame combo, is just a bit too fragile. Cloakbot also lacks a unit over 750 cost.

1k-2k cost range. Should have cloak to synergize with the Sniper/Scythe lategame combo. Should encourage ambushing, high spike damage and retreat/repair (like all heavies).

Weapons
EMG, Razorback-type weapon. Has an archer-style ammo pack/weapon cooldown. Goes in, does huge amount of projectile spam, then retreats, recloaks, while the weapon reloads. Would be exhausted by assaults, heavies, and buildings: Sniper/Scythe can take care of these.

Tick-launcher. Can load ticks and launch them at 400?-600? range with d-gun. Giving it an EMP weapon to use either in ambushes or in order to enable its retreat. Gives a way to use ticks safely late game, by storing them in this mech.

Synergies
Snipers: Runs some cloaked riot capacity. Can finish off an approaching heavy after Snipers burst it, but should not be able to tango evenly with most heavies.

Warrior, Glaive and Scythe offer good sources of DPS for the tick Cannon.

Should it's LoS be on the low since, so Scythe and Jethro can scout for it and it can't spot for sniper?

Zeus packs can keep units stunned after the Tick cannon goes off.

Model
Using Spherebot pieces, triple-piece legs, less humanoid.


Problems
Might displace other units or, worse, be a monoculture unit, since it is accurate and high damage. Might just use a static defense line to retreat to, rather than a sniper/scythe line. Cloakbot needs more synergy, so this unit must synergize. ANOTHER accurate cloakbot unit (Rocko is the only one that isn't!). Feels a lot like the Scorpion (EMP AoE d-gun, Accurate DPS weapons).

This is just an idea and there are factories that need a lot more love before this (Spider, Jump, Hover and Amph need like 2-3 new units). But I thought I'd get the concept out for comment since I've been thinking about it.
+7 / -1
I'd skip the archer-style ammo-pack and try to find a way to make it fire a single useful burst... the tick-launcher is already such a complicated mechanic that bolting two such mechanics onto the thing seems bad.

Why does it need to be accurate? Maybe just arm it with a sort of short-ranged catapult volley that saturates an area about the size of a lab? That kind of weapon would heavily differentiate it from sharpshooters. Would have synergy with the ticks - a stunned target would be very vulnerable to its volley. You could tick-and-smash a mob of advancing assaults nicely.

Given the opportunity, would its tick launcher work with skuttles and roaches?

I do like the premise, though - a unit to throw other small units has always been something I've wanted to see, and the Tick in particular is the killer app for such a power. Also, it's always seemed odd that the cloakies don't have some sort of high-alpha attack-and-hide unit.
+0 / -0
Something like the catapault is 'accurate'... it has so much AoE, what are you going to miss with it?

The Mech accurate to run some Riot for the Sniper. Scythe is good here, but is better against mid-level units than against things like Fleas and Glaives. Warriors just tend to get picked off in late game.

A single useful burst would be too much like the Sniper, and as for an AoE blap that's kind of what the Tick is meant to be here. Layering them on top of eachother would be a bit pointless, if you stun them and they instantly die why stun them?

I don't want to add more high damage AoE that cleans up Skirm packs etc: We already have too much of that. I don't want it to be another Ultimatum, Skuttle or Spy that is just like:


But rather something that uses it's cloak as a part of the larger 'Retreat/Repair' mechanic that heavies tend to favour. It still has the 'Surprise' factor because of it's Tick Cannon and front-loaded damage but it's not a 1-shot pony. The tick cannon reload should probably sync with the ammo cycle so you can tick when you go in, waste all your ammo, then tick again to retreat if you need to.

The ammo mechanic would require no micro beyond a bit of avoiding bad targets and retreating when the ammo is all gone. You don't have to activate it or press any buttons. So I don't see how this makes it more complicated on top of the tick cannon. Honestly I think any unit over 1k cost or so should have a couple of mechanics to juggle so the player is engaged with it.

The Tick Launcher would work thus: Any tick set to gaurd the Mech or any Tick the Mech guards is loaded into the Launcher (perhaps up to a max). It could possibly also just be set to suck up nearby ticks (maybe on a toggle). Then, on a long reload, it can launch the tick out which travels through the air as if under impulse to it's target. Not sure whether it should explode on impact or whether the ticks can then be moved around. The reload should probably be the only way to get the ticks out other than the mech dying, which is why I tend towards the ticks not dying on impact and being the only way to get them out once they're in (otherwise there is some other 'unload ticks' button which can be used to make a zero-range stun blast, though maybe that's okay complication..?). The problem with not dying on impact is that you might use the tick cannon, then the tick doesn't go off and you take tons of damage.
+0 / -0
7 years ago
Let it load skuttle and roach too? :D
+0 / -0
So if i understand you correctly, a loaded tick launcher becomes a super tick itself? Or doesn't it have cloak?

Reminds me a lot of the Gretchin cannon from Warhammer 40K ;-)

It all depends on cost and details of course but this sounds like a very powerful weapon. Ticks have the problem they need to get close. If i can shoot them an LLTs range they basically can't be stopped.

What about the micro requirements? Will you need to use it like starcrafts defiler that needs to be ordred to eat zerglings manually to get mana? Would you load up every individual tick in the cannon? This type of micro sounds very non-ZKish.

I do agree with the gap in lategame units for the cloaklab though. On the other hand, i've never really mind. It is ok to need to switch to another factory late game imo. This is a common theme in all "beginners factories" (veh, cloak, shield)

+0 / -0

7 years ago
IMO even Tank should be a starting factory and even Cloak should scale into lategame. It's almost there, Sniper/Scythe is a great skirmish line, it just needs some beef.

Don't get carried away over-analyzing the roles and weaknesses of a tick. It's a 3k EMP weapon in 384 AoE with a 16s Para Time.

By comparison the Bantha has a 15k EMP in 128 AoE with a 20s para time on a 30s reload at 1200 range.

For the cost of a Tick per shot, this sort of weapon on a 1k cost unit is really reasonable.

Also I already described how the loading will work. Just click the tick on the mech or the mech on the tick, or maybe an auto-loader, you won't have to click on some special button or something.
+0 / -0

7 years ago
A bit off topic but here you can see a nice example of late-game snipers (it was a huge comeback for Kafein), without Scythe, but with some Zeuses.

http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/197592
+0 / -0
7 years ago
quote:
Tick-launcher.

YESYESYESYES
+1 / -0

7 years ago
I'm assuming the more ticks are loaded into the mech the greater the spread of ticks will be when you fire it?

as in, the ticks don't cluster, otherwise that would be a scorp replica just cheaper
+0 / -0
quote:
Goes in, does huge amount of projectile spam, then retreats, recloaks, while the weapon reloads.



This thing in C&C 3 worked the same way and i always loved these tanks.
Your idea sounds really great, i would imagine this unit having double miniguns which overheat after a while, since Glaive has a small submachine gun, Warrior has not only bigger but double the guns, so this unit would be really relevant.

But what about balance? I think it was intentional that Cloakies don't have a Heavy unit as all of their units are the best examples of their classes (like, Hammer has huge range, Zeus is very slow and tough, Warrior completely eviscerates raiders but is also completely useless against skirmishers etc.), and they also have a bomb (!) which is a huge benefit since not every fac has such an unit and it's really useful in most games.

Anyways, if this unit won't be a big issue to balance, i'm all in for it! Great concept AUrankAdminSaktoth
+1 / -0
7 years ago
quote:
I'm assuming the more ticks are loaded into the mech the greater the spread of ticks will be when you fire it?

I assume that no matter how many you load, they still get fired one by one.
+2 / -0
7 years ago
why? i would prefer to unload em all like an emp shotty...

1 tick dosent really stun anything other then light raiders, it can't even stun a single ravager.

being able to unload 5-10 ticks with 1 shot (costing 600-1200m/shot in ticks) would be far more usefull, because it would be in the range of scorpion (wich has a 20k emp dgun that is FREE)
+0 / -0

7 years ago
it not meant to be an anti heavy, dab
one tick at a time would be much simpler
+0 / -0
its a 1-2k metal class unit, it still needs to be able to at least stop ravagers...

unless you want to make ia a superheavy raider (run in cloaked through base shooting things up with masive dps emg
+0 / -0
7 years ago
>Tick-launcher. Can load ticks and launch them at 400?-600? range with d-gun. Giving it an EMP weapon to use either in ambushes or in order to enable its retreat. Gives a way to use ticks safely late game, by storing them in this mech.

Then I want roach-launcher for shields and scuttle-launcher for jumpies
+0 / -0
7 years ago
+2 / -3

7 years ago
brroleg the point of this is not a launcher gimmick, its so cloaks scale well in late game

whereas shields have silly shieldballs and jumpies have sumo
They no need this
+1 / -0
Imo, a dedicated laucher mechanic is just one gimmick too gimmicky.

It's way beyond extant gimmick units in terms of its lolfactor, and it also would cost more micro than any other dgun-bearing unit, plus require a logistics chain with the ever so splosive backfiring ticks, and would push the "dgun line" twice lower than it is now, even if we count sumo jump as one.

In short, cheapest activable weapon that requires most babysitting ever.

Having cloak and ammo-depletion on primary weapon just add insult to injury here.

Additionally, the design seems to aim for a rather complex mix of parameters:
- upfront alpha and capacity to skirmish with it
- sufficient HP to survive late-game better than Warrior
- riot capacity

Whatever comes out of this will be quite hard to balance.

Also, cloakies can already kinda "tick cannon" using the eraser+tick combo. Of course, this works better for roaches, but point stays.
+2 / -0
wouldnt it basicaly fill the razorback role from BA?
ie. fast, heavy raider/assult units that are best for penetrative assult
(in otherwards the one thing cloakies are terificaly bad at (see ravager/reaper for comparison))

i would even argue that it dosent really need the tick cannon, it just needs:
cloak and emg(600dps, 350 range), ~3-4k hp, 1k cost, 2.0 speed, (or there abouts)


hmmm thats basicaly the dantes little brother
+0 / -0
7 years ago
now that i think about it, i believe it's a bad idea
cloakies are already good in early game, isn't that enough?
+1 / -1
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