Eraser and roaches

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Vistritium 15 years ago I don't wanna post it in issues on google code, so I post it here hope some devs and other players will ready it. What is the counqer to roaches cloaked by near standing eraser (which has big range)??? This is just awesome, skuttle has speed of 1,52, roach has speed of 4 (!), and can be invisible killing easly all enemy units and structures. Why why why does stupid eraser make units invisible? why the hell I have absolutely no idea why this is so strong in zero-k, why it don't just make units stealth, that's how it should work in my opinion and how it works in all other mods. Or there should be just other way to detect them, for example in NOTA radars detect near cloaked (not stealth) units, that was pretty fair (in NOTA there are mobile radars). +0 / -0
luckywaldo7 15 years ago Yes, cloaker + crawling bombs are probably op. But I would personally prefer finding ways to balance it than just remove the cloak. Who cares what other mods do, an area cloaker is an awesome unit :D A mobile radar is also probably going to be added as soon as the model is ready, as a morph from static radar. +0 / -0
Licho 15 years ago I would simply add short range seismic detection to all units or something. Also you can usually decloak moving roach has big enough radius If your scout unit is cheap or fast firing no way roach does cost.. Have you checked modstats for that game? Did roach actually made cost? +0 / -0
Licho 15 years ago In the game you refer to, there were 61 roaches, they made 2.1 their cost in damage. Which is much more than they normaly but many units show so much in isolated games when used well by winning team. On average roaches manage to damage units worth 0.74 their own cost, indicating rather weak unit (or poor use). +0 / -0
GoogleFrog 15 years ago Well I just increased their decloak radius to that of every other unit. This was an oversight I thought about fixing in the script but I just checked their auto kaze distance and it is larger than normal decloak range anyway. Licho your seismic suggestion is stupid. That just equates to larger decloak range for all units which can be done. I have used this but it did not catch on, it has only been used against me once. On that one time I think I countered it decently with a spread of cheap turrets and units. +0 / -0
Vistritium 15 years ago Long range units become useless, a lot of strong units with strong_close_weapon can now suddenly emerge from darkness and kill all other units easy. Eraser became more superior than I thought..and this is cloakbot factory! +0 / -0
GoogleFrog 15 years ago I'm not against nerfing cloak somehow. I've thought it to be theoretically pretty powerful for a few years. But I haven't had it used against much and it didn't seem particularly powerful then, also few people seemed to use it against each other. So basically I left it how it was until people started demonstrating that it is indeed too powerful. Because it is a funny thing to balance so I wouldn't just trust what I think it would act like. Also it's position in the game is easily overlooked so I don't want to overnerf it and push it out of the metagame before we even see how good it is. Nerfs would be something like increasing decloak distance or increasing area cloaking cost depending on how it ends up being too powerful. In short learn how to use it properly or it won't register as an issue. Get replays of games where you think it was too good. +0 / -0
Vistritium 15 years ago I have idea! just remove mobile jammer :) It will be fair enough, using roaches with stationary jammer will be hard and not that effective. Other alternative is removing cloak only from mobile jammer. What do you think about it? +0 / -0
Licho 15 years ago If it realy becomes a problem, it could be disabled when in moving state and only enabled in static mode (after morph). +0 / -0
Vistritium 15 years ago http://www.mediafire.com/?whjwluzl9ar973v http://www.mediafire.com/?ztj3164jtg2t3mj 2 replays of cloaky roach using. I know I had weak enemies, but that doesn't change much, even pro would die to it, even if he would start to conquer it anyhow, I would have have big advantage and win game easly. +0 / -0
GoogleFrog 15 years ago Well try this: Cost 420 -> 600 Range 550 -> 440 Decloak Distance 100 -> 180 +0 / -0
NeonSturm 14 years ago --- I know this thread is very old --- Sometimes it is more efficient to cloak 5 snipers ( 7.5 / 25 energy while moving / idle ) with an eraser and put some AA / spam to it than to use the snipers own cloak. It is very likely that units leave the range of an eraser, so I want it's radius larger ( it costs about 700 metal and dies easy ) Some weapons should be able to fire without uncloak - even if this units don't have a own cloak ability. --- The stationary cloak fails if: * cloak mexes * a building was scouted once ( ghosted buildings ) * your porc / strategie shows where it is * your enemy spam fleas * ... --- I suggest this changes: * bigger jam radius * * decrease costs if other area cloaker / jammer are in range ( proportional to distance? ) * * cheap jammers should have only a personal cloak and replace cloakers * * * behind AA / Ground defense * * * to save costs while the front is cloaked and jammed both AND * increase the radius * * increase the energy cost: sneaky pete equal to eraser * * increase costs while moving: eraser costs ( 20 / 50 )/s OR * radius remains * * add a pre-morph unit for eraser * * * costs 300 metal and can only jam without cloak * * add a pre-morph unit for sneaky pete * * * costs 150 metal and can only jam without cloak +0 / -0

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