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Morph and expand vs unmorphed com and E generators

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5 years ago
Recently I have been leaving my com unmorphed and building solars/windgens. I have found it very effective, more effective than ecell/LPB. It has the advantage of leaving you with more breathing room to prevent stalling at the beginning, but it leaves you without a weapon to defend yourself while expanding and since you have to build solars/windgens you expand slower. I find that the lack of proper armament is not especially important, but the speed you can expand at may be. Some people do a level 1 build with an ecell and no weapon, which would help with expansion speed without a particularly excessive strain on your starting eco and resources.

Thoughts?
+0 / -0

5 years ago
If you aren't morphing and worry about lack of weapon you could take Junior who gets a strap free of charge.
+0 / -0

5 years ago
Junior FTW.

Eco comm with E-cell is still unbeatable eco wise though. (given windmills aren't an option)
+0 / -0

5 years ago
i almost only use suppcom with cell as com choice. most of the time i use lvl1 morph, only when i stay back as planes player or such, which does not require pew pews as i have 2 defenders by the time the first raiders are estimated to join me.
+0 / -0
It depends a lot on the starting mexes.
If you start with 3 mexes worth 2 metal each, morphing to E-cell is the fastest way to to actually be able to spend that metal income from the mexes.
This means that the commander can build all the 3 mexes immediately while morphing to e-cell and after he is done he can start expanding or making other structures.
Compare that to making the solar generators where the commander have to spend about 21 seconds more in the base to make the 3 solar collectors while his metal builds up. Alternatively if you put in some solar generators between the mexes you will have less metal income until you build your last mex.
If you are cheap like me and only get a laser you only spend 40 more metal than making solars and you will easily get that back because all your mexes will be finished faster and you can start expanding faster.
When wind is strong or you can make tidals it changes the equation abit.

Personally I think that e-cell is a bit too cheap as it is always a no-brainer if you want to expand your economy as fast as possible.
I only consider other commanders when they are essential to my strategy, when there are lots of energy reclaim or when metal income is scarce at the start.
+2 / -0
Energy cell is boring imo, and adds nothing to the game.
+2 / -0


5 years ago
Ecell is not only fastest, it's also 20 seconds faster than closest competitor.

I wouldn't miss it.
+6 / -0

5 years ago
Idunno, I think the game is more fun with the e-cell in play. With that in mind: maybe it should be rolled into the basic functionality of the Comm? That is, buff the base comm energymake? Then everybody gets the e-cell opener.
+2 / -0
5 years ago
Yeah give all commanders level 0 energy cell imo. Maybe this will make a new open to new tactics in first moments of game.
+3 / -0

5 years ago
Yes, remove e-cell. I think giving commanders a bit of extra energy income (2x metal?) would be good and keep the faster opening, whilst increasing strategic options.
+1 / -1
My opinion on the subject(as a 1v1 player that never morfs to ecell) is that you do not need to have your E=M income, what you need is not to excess, wich is in fact a difrent thing altogether...

[proof=math]
total metal you can ave to spend in first minute
500+(4*60)+(2*52)+(2*44)+(2*36)=1004M
base+com+1+2+3(mexes) asuming 2m/s mex

with morf
total e
500+4*60+6*30-300=620E
base+com+ecell-morf cost

total m
1004-300=704
total-cost

total BP
(10+10)*60=1200 free bp
600-225=375free com bp
base-mex-solar

84e shortfall, 620 free spending

without morf
total e(3 solars after 3 mex)
500+4*60+2*29+2*22+2*15-210=662E
base+com+1+2+3(solar)-cost

total m
1004-300=704
total-cost

total BP
(10+10)*60-240=960 free bp
600-225-240=135free com bp
base-mex-solar

42m shortfall, 662 free spending

conclusion:
no-morf is 42e more efficient then morf
both morf and no morf have (huge)excess build power to spend
[/proof]

[proof=strategy]
at the start(first 1 minute) you do not need power at all, you have 500e/m in storage and +4(from eco com) giving you a total of 740E+M to spend in that minute

asuming you build at the maximum 20bp (lab+com) you can only spend 1200e/m in an ideal world, but often you spend less then 600e/m due to movment/building opening times ect...

in the first minute you need/can only build 3mex +2llt +3raiders (iregardless of your strategy) this costs 225+180+~300 = ~705e/m

leaving you ~35e/m

you need 300e/m to morf, thus morfing means you must stand around and wait for at least an extra 26.5seconds at the very least to finish this basic prep (longer since it takes (min)22.5 seconds to build 3 mex (actual time ~35s))

to build the 3solars/wind gen takes only 21seconds, if you build your first soalr at 22.5s (when you built 3 mex) you do not e stall are effectively faster then the morfing comm
[/proof]

TL:DR
morf eco com takes a theoretical 1:35 seconds to leave the base
non-morf eco com takes a theoretical 1:21 seconds to leave the base
non morf com is faster then morf com (and can later morf into combat orientated morf com)
+1 / -0
Laser+ecell(250m and 250e) only takes about 20 seconds to morph.
You can morph to e-cell and make 3 mexes without stalling.
This means that a morphed com can build 3 mexes and leave the base after 21 seconds. If you are making 3 solars instead it takes a theoretical 42 seconds before you leave the base and you are going to have less income during those additional 21 seconds it takes to make the solars.
+1 / -0
i was using the asumption that you stay in base to build it up a bit and make it safe" with llt, ect... if you are going for straightforward rush, yes ecell is the best
+1 / -0
5 years ago
Regardless if you stay in the base or not:
If mexes give 2 metal/s, 21 seconds delay on 3 mexes or solars equals to 2*21+2*14+2*7=84 resources of either metal or energy.
21 seconds of comwalking or reclaiming is also not something to ignore.
+0 / -0
5 years ago
unless you have 250m more raiders running around in your undefended base while the com is comwalking...
+0 / -0
5 years ago
Scouting is important if you want to see an enemy rush. That is why I always scout.
+0 / -0
5 years ago
unless you have 250m more enemy raiders running around in your undefended base while the com is comwalking...


i fixed statment to be more clear XD
+0 / -0

5 years ago
I always morph, all your early game E problems sorted out without having to use any build power, making your start x2 faster than other people

The fact that it depletes your metal is not important because I move my com out after start, so the only thing using eco is an unassisted lab

You should just do test-run in game for timing rather than relying on derpy maths

If you want to sit in base and "build up a bit", maybe com morphing is not ideal but in my experience, there is no good reason for the com to sit in base. With only 500 storage your starter eco will be spent in seconds so you need to get your com out increasing your metal income as soon as humanly possible, which as Godde seems to have worked out, is 21 seconds after start
+0 / -0
If the enemy have 250 more metal of raiders in your base and you haven't been able to match this then the enemy have to had sacrificed economy to rush out a lot of raiders. Whether or not you should comwalk depends on what your enemy does. In most situations it is a good thing to do as you can make more raiders without having to build an extra con while expanding.
+0 / -0
5 years ago
It also depends if you can kill enemy raider with your own and get the advantage or need a defender in your base
+0 / -0