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FFA TOURNEY

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10 years ago
Hello, i was thinking of hosting a ffa tourney next week or this week friday night or the next day.(sad is that its a 1 vs 1 week in the 15.03.2014).There are chances that i wont be present at the tourney and il try to find som1 to host it instead of me.

Rules of the tourney:

1.Dont intentionally lag the game, or you will be eliminated from the tourney.

2.Clan mates will be manually placed far away from each other on the map or in different battles, so teaming up will be harder.

3.Standard map that i suggest is :KOlmogorov http://zero-k.info/Maps/Detail/7993
(i wait for more ideas regarding maps). The reason i select this map is because of the mex balancing and the chances each player has. What i mean is that every1 can eco and make big units, and stuff with those 3 mexes that he can overdrive.(Its a 10 player map)

4.Teaming up is allowed, with the condition that you must declare it while playing in game.(will be interesting to watch diplomacy at its best :D, careful not to team up with traitors!)

5.Please dont extend the game in case you can win it. Instantly kill the enemy if hes the last one and finish the game so we dont lose time.

6.Depending on the people that join the tourney there will have games up to 10 players fighting on the map. In case there are more then 20-30 players that join the tourney there will be 3 or more separate games running at the same time.

How the finals and semifinals will be:

1.The last 3 remaining players will go to the semifinals with the exception of the game winner who will go directly to the finals.
2.Regarding the other 6 players that are eliminated in the game, there will be another match where only one player(the winner) will be sent to the semifinals.
3.The semifinals will be like this:
a.The winner of that game will be sent to the finals
b.The remaining players will play 1 aditional battle with players in same category and the winer will go to the finals
4. I suggest the finals to be made in the next day, and it will go like this:
There will be as many games until a player wins a total of 3 games. When he does that hes declared Tourney Winner

So please write here "I WANT TO JOIN" so i will know how many players will be.(Curently i just want to knwo how many, so i know for sure if il start the tourney or not)
Aditional information:
As a reminder the standard map that contains all 10 players will be Kolmogorov. The semifinal map i think it will be sandcastles but i will want to let it to player choice, same for the 6 first eliminated player map.

In case there will be 30 players for example:
After the 3 matches the finalists and semifinalists will watch the 3 games where they will see the fights between the first 6 players that were eliminated in the game 1 , 2 and 3(18 players in total ,player switch possible). Winners of those matches will go to the semifinals and a semifinal will contain 4 players. So we will have 3 semifinal matches at the same time.

The 3 Semifinals matches and how it will be:
Winers goes to finals
All losers of the semifinals will have 1 extra match where they all play in one last game( there will be 9 players)and the winer will go to the finals.

So there will be a total of 7 finalists.

The Finals(will be a lot of games and i suggest it to happen in the next day after the tournament started)I remind that i say this from the perspective of 30 players joining the tourney
A)In the first match the winner will be able to eliminate 3 players from the first 5 players that died first.
B)There were be as many games possible until one of the 4 player has a 3 game win score.

Sorry for my bad english and i ask a dev to change the words in case i wrote them wrong. Hope you guys will enjoy it. Il wait for the subscribe. Please write ony here and be patience, first of all i just want to see how many players will want this tourney.
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10 years ago
So how will you handle it if people stay in the game with, say, 1 cloaked flea in the middle of nowhere? Does that make them count as dropped out sooner?
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We add another rule: small units with no purpose and no building ability if a player has only this will be eliminated(detriment , starlight, nukes and so on are not included). Cloacked coms with 2 energy cells hiding and waiting to be the second or third last player that dies on map just to go in semifinals will be considered. I mean its a sneaky tactic...
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10 years ago
Wouldn't the preferred map really depend upon the number of players that show up? Perhaps make a listing of chosen map per # of players
+2 / -0

10 years ago
Thats what i said, i want to see how many and then decide the maps. If there are at least 10 players il try to talk with all of them to play the map i mentioned. If not we will see :)
+0 / -0
10 years ago
I think it's a good idea and will try to join if it's on friday/saturday
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10 years ago
The rules sound a bit too open to interpretation.
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10 years ago
Its the first ffa ever made if players join...what do you expect AUrankAdminGoogleFrog. Also you will have a chance there to make porc AUrankAdminGoogleFrog, i expect you there:D
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10 years ago
You could try the less laggy and porcy ffa maps like Violence and Black Star. Generally I think it is a bad idea to have a single match with 10 players in. It could take a very long time to finish and may be difficult to organize.
+1 / -0
Personally, i believe that in a FFA, there is no silver or bronze. One player wins and the rest are losers.
Otherwise, all kinds of unwanted behavior appear, like people not even trying to win the game, instead teaming up with the leader in order to get second place. I believe everyone must fight for the win, without any sort of compromise.

This does make it harder to set a proper "tournament", as it would be very difficult to rank the non-winning players.

One solution i see is some sort of "reverse elimination" mode, where FFAs are played repeatedly, with winners being "knocked-in" into the finals. Once you have 4-6 winners, these duke it out against each other in the final FFA.
The exact set up depends heavily on the number of people who participate.

Another problem is that an average FFA usually takes very long time. 2+ hour games are not unheard of. This means that even if just 3 rounds of FFAs are played, the whole thing might take up very large amounts of time.


As for the maps, we should try and avoid the most porcy map, to try and minimise the time for each FFA. Azure Rampart, Castles and, Hunters are the best examples of porcy FFA maps to avoid. I would also be against gimmick maps like "the fastest map possible", or whatever was the name.


Anyway, i think many people already know how much i love FFAs, so yeah, i totally want to join.
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10 years ago
Thats why i told about the rule RUrankYogzototh that when you team up with a player you must say it in chat so all will know. When all know they will make theyir own teams to kill the first and second player who can win the game.

Regarding the less porcy maps...some of the 1 vs 1 players will play and 1800-1900 elo players that do excelent in ffa will die fast because of theyir brutal expansion and raid. I just want to give a chance to all. Kolmogorov is a good example where you can 50% porc and 50% raid or use tactical nukes for instant killing from long range.
With the rules that i mentioned people will be verry carefull at attacking the other player, they will all keep an eye for the biggest elo player and teaming up will make the game more interesting, once you see traitors :D.
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ROrankForever , you are saying it like there are always multiple "other players" who can set up the counterbalance. As i have said, one player may forfeit their chance to win the game by allying with the strongest player and settling for 2nd place. No backstabbing, plain "i help you win, you let me have second place".

Imagine a situation:
There are three players. Player 1 is dominating and will probably win even against 2v1. Player 2 is struggling against player 1. Player 3 is very weak.

With "All losers are equal", player 3 would team up with player 2 and fight together against player 1 for a small chance to win.

But with "last to die is gets second place", player 3 can team up with player 1. They crush player 2, and then player 3 gives up. Player 3, the weakest one, now has second place. Sure, he lost his chance to win, but instead he got a guaranteed second place.

quote:
you must say it in chat so all will know

How is this going to be ruled out? Smart players can assess threats an team up organically without ever communicating at all.
How do you prove some players have "teamed up"? And what does that official declaration of "teaming up" bring anyway?

You do not need any formal rules regarding diplomacy. Alliances and other diplomatic relations occur naturally when decent players play FFA.
+2 / -0

10 years ago
the players that are near that "alliance"" will see the declaration of teaming up and thus they wont let the other enemy near them die to them or he will be next, so they will both team up against the other 2...Dont worry they will know how to make diplomacy
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Okay, so the only point of officially declaring an alliance is so that other people can team up against me?

Can you then explain what are the advantages of declaring it? Why cant i just use a private chat, or maybe not say anytihng at all?
If he's a good player, clearly he will realise it is beneficial for us to team up, and will do it without any words.


Really. I still dont understand. Which part of diplomacy requires a rule to explicitly declare alliances? Which important developments does that rule bring, that wouldnt be there if not for that rule?

It is impossible to effectively enforce. It does not stop any unwanted behaviour. It does not create any new interesting scenarios. There are no reasons for it to exist, but plenty against it.
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10 years ago
Because RUrankYogzototh if players dont declare the 4-5 player alliance to kill the punny 5 remaning nabs it wont be fair.
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10 years ago
"I'm not teaming up with anyone, we're just not attacking each other. Pure accident."
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quote:

FFA
it wont be fair
it wont be fair
it wont be fair





quote:
the 4-5 player alliance to kill the punny 5 remaning nabs

And declaring an alliance would change this how? And when is that alliance supposed to be declared? On game start? When the first nab gets attacked? How the hell does that even work?


And man, the 4-5 player alliance thing... I dont think i have ever, ever seen such a thing in a FFA.
Its almost like you live in some illusionary world, where FFAs are fair, and players are smart enough to figure who to team up against, but not smart enough to do it without explicitly declaring an alliance.
+1 / -0

10 years ago
Its theyr problem RUrankYogzototh if they dont attack each other or not, if the 5 players that are not allied se the alliance they will all ally against them.
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10 years ago
There must be 1 match winner and 3 last remaining players. Thas why i wanted bigger map for more players, so teaming up will be harder and more problematic in case other people see it.
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RUrankYogzototh already pointed out the problems with multiple "winners" and having to announce alliances, don't ignore them. Unless rules makes sense it will be very difficult to get enough players to sign up.

Anyway, IMO big FFA-s don't really fit into a tournament format in ZK. In the first round you might get enough players to get one big FFA, maybe two. Might as well as just organize a big FFA showmatch instead of a tournament.

There might be a way to make a small FFA tournament, perhaps 4 way FFA work. If you had 16 players sign up you could get a pretty nice 2 round mini-tournament with the winner of every game moving on to the final.
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