spider bots have 2 main flaws as far as i can see they have no arty and they have no true riot units, yes the crabe is a riot unit but up close is murdered by even only a few glaives or (very slowly mind you) a few fleas, its cost is also largely impracticle atleast early to mid game it is, the other spider bots i've found in my use of them can't fight off cheap units in any kind of substantial numbers cudgels cant hit them and recluse will get closed on and killed, the venom is to me too costly for what it does and to use the paralyze effects properly need to be fielded in large numbers whilst they're costly and extremely fragile
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Crabe fire napalms or arti shots on demand? Give Crabe some kind of Outlaw weapon but a bit weaker? Let it jump like Sumo and deal area damage?
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that would be useful no doubt, but it would increase the already prodigious cost, I was thinking more along the lines of some sort of cheaper riot spider with rotating mg's on its back similar to the krow in style, then i realised how difficult that would be :(
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Lolbantrollkthxplz!1 Spiders have the best riot unit in ZK, if you don't know that you should probably play the game just once before arguing on it. If you already did you might want to look for another game. Tetris is very simple and has clear rules: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetris
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thanks for the detailed, informative and well thought out reply skasi, anyone with a constructive opinion?
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Glaives get pwned by spiders simply because venom will stun them all while recluse kills them all. On top of that they are all terrain meaning they can retreat where the glaives cant go.
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Seriously Praetor please stop acting like you never played the game. Venom is the fastest riot, has the most damage, the most aoe, the only riot that makes cost against pyros, the best riot against gunships, the only allterrain riot, it's op if anything. People have been complaining very often, there have been discussions about nerfing it for years now. It's not like you could find out all that yourself. There's a unit list with stats, there's battles you can join to see for yourself, it's so obvious.
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Oh I nearly forgot! Venom hard-counters the whole shieldbot lab.
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The main weakness of the venom is that it deals 0 actual damage to it's target, and so needs assistance for killing even 1 flea
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That's wrong. Every Venom deals on average 0.27 damage, I've checked stats. If you need more than that, just add any other unit. Even a single one worth 100m will do.
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"The main weakness of the venom is that it deals 0 actual damage to it's target, and so needs assistance for killing even 1 flea" And that's what makes it an interesting unit!
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It's hard to use, I agree. If just one raider escapes the EMP, it can mess you up, as you need to change targets to stun it, releasing other raiders from your grasp. But the proper use of venoms is to slow him down and break up his army so you can sneak up a cliff. It stops him getting close, keeps him at bay, so you can get out of reach. That being said, even on flats, venom's allow the otherwise totally inaccurate cudgel and recluse to kill raiders. So either learn how to use venoms correctly, or stick closely to cliff faces when you arent near your static-d.
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the key weakness of the venom is: fire support. No raider works with venom except pyro...
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Interesting, there are no units cost from 400~550 used as main force. There is a gap.
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Spiders counter the entire shield bot and cloak bot except hammers. Pretty powerfull right? When i started playing i used glaive spam against skirmishers. But that just dont work with recluse/venom spam. Most of them if not all get stunned and get killed quite fast by recluses. Hammers counter them althrough you need glaives/warriors to protect them from fleas. Spiders dont have arti while most other fac have arti.
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There is also sniper. for cloaky bot, and also warrior. and more cloaky tick + area cloaky bot, don't think you are good enough to cover all field with fleas.
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yeah, shield is bad against spider. except to thugs rush - though its bad against crabe.
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Uh Thug rush is so eazy to counter. Venoms deal insane shield damage and the aoe emps them even when shields are full. Thugs are much too slow to even get a good shot at Venoms, so they are effectively invulnerable. I don't know why you mention Warriors. If Venoms can get close they beat Warriors without a problem. (range nearly the same, 270+hillbonus vs 240) Same goes for Pyros anyway. The 400-550 price range you mentioned is mostly filled by AA, well and Mace, Bombers, Torpboats. Not "main force"?
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Spiders are characterised by slow speed and incomplete roles (raider, riot, arty). It technically has those roles but with limitations; Flea dies to anything with accuracy, Venom requires support and Crabe only barely outranges HLT. Spiders ignore hills which is a large advantage so they're not suppose to be a general all rounded factory. That said they're obviously not useless. Their high weight class makes them good for more cramped games where you may run out of room for cheaper stuff. Slow speed is less of an advantage here too as defence is likely to be nearby for easy retreating.
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i agree with GoogleFrog at all arguments.
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