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PW must be super beta.

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CArank[G0G0]Dancer
4 years ago
Hey, so far my experience with PW is pretty shit.

Balance is fucked (doesn't exist) and is easily exploited.

3 nubs vs 3 pros is imba. The problem is if people are not evenly matched, then the games become stagnant with the same allies together vs the same other team (which can cause the same results if games are imba)

This can be solved (for the individual) with people switching factions (which is what they do if they keep loosing due to fucked up balance).

Also players can troll it by joining one faction, loosing repeatedly and intentionally since there is not individual deterrent for loosing/winning with a campaign style PW.


The auto moving/start of games is also kind of shit...

Players can be preparing for another game, and a play may have selected to attack/defend. Other players in the other game (normal teams), simply see the player removed from their host, and shoved into another game. (currently no way to back out of your possition of attack/defend without closing the client).

This also draws players away from the other hosts and towards the PW host (and if they have no turn, they simply sit/wait/get bored and log off), since players are drawn to other players in game.

This should be changed so it moves the players before starting the game, and having it so that both sides/factions confirm who will represent them, and if to commence the battle.

Personally PW needs a ton of work, otherwise its going to do more harm than good to the ZK player base.
+0 / -0

CArank[G0G0]Dancer
4 years ago
Also the planet wars host, you cannot !move Springiee, or any other votes in it. so it is difficult to get people into normal games. Please disable when you are not testing PW. (Since it is still UBER beta, IMHO)


+0 / -0


GBrank[Fx]Drone
4 years ago
what's wrong with autostart? don't click the button if you don't want to play

it's not meant to be a normal host, there's no reason for you to give commands to the host or even sit in the battle lobby at all

anonymity was done on purpose, it makes it more fun

there's no evidence of people abusing the system, if there were, it would be obvious and they would be punished most likely

only things I agree with are being able to de-select the pw button and lack of pw balance
+2 / -0


GBrankTheSponge
4 years ago
quote:
Balance is fucked (doesn't exist) and is easily exploited.

3 nubs vs 3 pros is imba. The problem is if people are not evenly matched, then the games become stagnant with the same allies together vs the same other team (which can cause the same results if games are imba)

This round is far more competitive than previous rounds and it was intended that recruiting good teams be part of PW.
quote:
(currently no way to back out of your possition of attack/defend without closing the client).

I see this as a problem. Being able to remove your attack/defense team place would be good for better coordination.
+0 / -0

PLrankFailer
4 years ago
(edited 4 years ago)

quote:
The problem is if people are not evenly matched, then the games become stagnant with the same allies together vs the same other team (which can cause the same results if games are imba)


I think teh problem lies in the one attack per turn politics. Now you attack enemy, enemy has 30 minutes to defend, thats more than enough to finish most games. Then they attack, and u have 30 minutes to defend. In such situations a set of 4(6) players can play all the time.

Is it possible to 2 games go simultaneously? I mean, both (and more in the furute) facions attack at one. Iit makes 4 players (per faction) plays at once which is good ovbiousely, plus it adds soem tactics too (do we put our best players in the attack or the defence?). In the future when (if) more players join ZK and we could have PW with 5 factions it would allow factions to work tohegher to force 1 faction to defend against 4 attacks at once. That'll be serious pain in the ass which'd have to be dealt with ^^
+0 / -0



CZrankAdminLicho
4 years ago
Another battle can start as soon as challenge is accepted -> there is no limit on max simultaneous games. I have seen 3-4 PW games at once..

Only depends on number of players willing to attack/defend..

+1 / -0

ITrankOldGhostStalker
4 years ago
We must also block this free roaming of players from one faction to another, you choose a faction and you keep it until the end. The successive round, everything is resetted and you start again. Also only 2 factions seems a bit riductive for me, now it's just wild planet camp, instead of tactical advance
+3 / -0

{redacted}
4 years ago
quote:
We must also block this free roaming of players from one faction to another, you choose a faction and you keep it until the end.

B-b-but then how am I supposed to be repeatedly jumping to the losing faction?

quote:
Also only 2 factions seems a bit riductive for me

The current factions are already lacking active players. More factions would probably worsen the situation. More factions would also need more rules to define how the metagame handles everything.
+0 / -0

CArank[G0G0]Dancer
4 years ago
Been talking with new players today. Trying to give them tips and advice.

A new player prefers (after spectating and ai) to play in a teams game of 5v5 or more. Since their failures are not as vital to the survival of the team, and it can be balanced out.

The constant 2v2 - 3v3 planet wars is keeping new players from progressing/growing.

Good players in 2v2-3v3s are going to dominate new/lower elo players constantly (not even a competition). This drives away new/lower elo players and kills Zero-k.

If you really think that PW is good, then say goodbye to any new players. (since even new players would like to be on a winning team).

If you are constantly winning, then someone is constantly loosing...
+0 / -0



CZrankAdminLicho
4 years ago
PW is NOT for new players.
PW is NOT for people who don't care about winning.
PW is NOT for people who put blame on others.
PW is NOT for people who cannot work with others.
PW is NOT for people who cannot bear defeat.
PW is NOT for people afraid to fight against the odds.
PW is NOT for pussies.


Deal with it, maybe PW is not for you, but you cannot just force all others to do as you want and play 10v10 clusterfuck with you.
+12 / -0


USrank_Shaman
4 years ago
ESrankEveryone bawwing over PW:

Why do you get so worked up over pictures of planets? Who wins does not matter, they don't get any sort of cash prize or kudos or anything. Its not like the losing team gets sacrificed to the sun god. There's no incentive to play other than your own enjoyment.
+0 / -1

USrankSteel_Blue
4 years ago
If half the player base wants to play planet wars, then the other half will be stuck either playing 5V5 non-clusterfuck games, or spectating the planet wars games. We need more players, because people like the 10v10s and 5 people in a faction won't cut it to my likeing. We need more players. Why do DotA and LoL have hundreds of times more players than ZK?
+0 / -0

{redacted}
4 years ago
Ooooh you said PW will stop 10v10 clusterfucks? Wow maybe I should start playing in public games again!
+0 / -0

NLrankBlackdutchie
4 years ago
I'd prefer to play 2v2/3v3 planetwars games all the time over 10v10 fusterclucks. Less lag, more actual skill involved.

You can't force me to play your 10v10 fusterclucks just because you like those better.


Is there a way to hide the planetwars specators room from the lobby? This might prevent newbies from joining and never realizing no games are going to start. If you want to spec a planetwars game, you can then wait for one to start and join that, then you'll be moved along to the hidden spectators lobby afterwards.
This way there are no visible giant rooms of people seemingly waiting to start a 10v10.
+0 / -0



PLrankAdminSprung
4 years ago
quote:
PW is NOT for pussies.

Damn straight!
quote:
Its not like the losing team gets sacrificed to the sun god.

Yeah. We will have them sacrificed to the Spider Messiah instead.
+1 / -0

USrankPowerGuy
4 years ago

reminds me of a game I watched where someone spent a whole game whining about balance, purposely trolled his team mates, and said that the fact that they couldn't win while he was doing things to make it harder for the team to win proved the balance. then swapped factions right after- lol.
imho, even playing poorly is better than not only not trying, but bragging about not trying
+2 / -0


USrankkaen
4 years ago
Maybe you should have to nominate yourself and get voted in to participate in PW for a faction?
+0 / -0

CArank[G0G0]Dancer
4 years ago
Licho "PW is NOT for new players.
PW is NOT for people who don't care about winning.
PW is NOT for people who put blame on others.
PW is NOT for people who cannot work with others.
PW is NOT for people who cannot bear defeat.
PW is NOT for people afraid to fight against the odds.
PW is NOT for pussies."


Steel-blue "If half the player base wants to play planet wars, then the other half will be stuck either playing 5V5 non-clusterfuck games, or spectating the planet wars games. We need more players, because people like the 10v10s and 5 people in a faction won't cut it to my likeing. We need more players. Why do DotA and LoL have hundreds of times more players than ZK? "

If 5v5 is what is left to play, that would be ideal. But sadly that is rarely the case.

Personally i think PW has great potential to be a great addition to the ZK universe. But it requires a larger player base, and a ton of fine tuning to make it materialize as such.

Licho is correct that PW is not for new players.

So when a new player logs on, and players are in the PW host, where !move, !start, and all other cmd's are disabled, where is the push/incentive to get them to switch to the team hosts. Players flock to where other players are.

And the way the PW functions is it takes precedence over all other games.

My actions the other days as towards the PW games, was that since there was no other hosts with players in them, all that was left to play was PW.

And since i view it as beta, i decided to do a little "beta testing" and began to show the problems and shortfalls of the current PW system.

I want this game to flourish, and for it to have hundreds of players. For there to be many choices for the games that people can play, tiers for players (easy,med,hard), and for an involved planet wars campaign for the more experienced players (like licho has claimed it is for).

But sometimes you might try and do to much to early, and kill what you have...


+0 / -0

USrankAdminJasper
4 years ago
10v10 is too big. 5v5 is the max that I enjoy playing.
+0 / -0


GBrank[Fx]Drone
4 years ago
Dancer if people "flock to" PW instead of 10v10 host, maybe it is because, like most replies in this thread seem to indicate, people prefer those types of games?

You have 830 games played, you're not even a newbie, try playing smaller games and maybe you'll how to play properly without leeching off allies in big team games. Once you do, you will learn to enjoy small games more.
+5 / -0
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