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Featured Map Pool

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Relevant quotes:
- EErank[ISP]Lauri (link)
quote:
Is it? The 1v1 map pool is stuffed with low quality maps that often get !map voted away, but I never considered this to be one of them. It looks great, in my opinion also plays very well and is relatively different from most other maps.

Frankly if it were up to me I'd get rid of at least half the maps in the 1v1 pool if not more. If somebody wants to play on ugly or low quality maps they might as well as choose them manually instead of getting them shoved in people's faces all the time.

Games like Starcraft have official 1v1 map pools with less than 10 maps at a time, not sure why Zero-K needs to prioritize quantity over quality when it comes to featured or tagged maps.

Edit: there are 63 "official" maps with the 1v1 tag. This is WAY too much. No wonder the average quality of those maps is not high.


- CArankAdminShadowfury333 (link)
quote:
For the Steam release, there will need to be a limited MP map pool. This makes the download from Steam be the complete version for matchmaking, and allows us to realistically polish up the maps that players will generally play, mostly artistically (esp. adding SSMF where absent).

As such, let's work out a map pool for initial release. The idea is that every 3-6 months we can rotate in a few new maps that are competitively viable, and thus rotate out a few of the old ones, which should mean every couple years the map pool is completely different, keeping things fresh but still relatively learnable.




How many maps do you come across in standard rotation to which the unanimous response is "!map"?

On the other hand, if the standard rotation was pared down to 10-12 maps those would probably be the only ones that get seen, and that would get boring. In my experience it's extremely rare for anything besides a featured map or a troll map to get played.

Suggestion: two separate commands.
!map gets a random map from a small list of "high-quality" maps.
!mapall gets a random map from the list of featured maps we have presently.

(Alternatively, add a command for the first and leave !map the way it is.)

With these two commands it is possible to satisfy two demands: "I want to play on a solid map" and "I'm tired of these standard maps, let's play something different".

+2 / -0
Skasi
Suggestion: Record how often a map is voted away vs how often it is played.

(Optional: Then multiply the chance for a map to be picked via !map by the % it was actually played and on top of that add +10% so maps that never get played still have a low chance to come up. Every now and then admins can check the lowest-played maps and evaluate whether to unfeature them or not. Mappers can look at lowest-played maps and decide which they want to improve.)
+1 / -0

10 years ago
The problem is that ZK infrastructure isn't set up for large numbers of contributors - it's difficult to set up a test environment for it, and it uses ASP.Net WebForms which is a powerful but very idiosyncratic and tricky platform. So effectively CZrankAdminLicho is the only one who really knows its ins and outs. Obviously we can't fault him for his choice in tech stacks - he obviously was very productive with it. But it means it's difficult for others to contribute.

I'm pretty good with WebForms, but I'd be hesitant to play in that sandbox because of the difficulty of staging the changes. Screwing up could mean breaking the website.

But yeah, my preferred option: rename the "Featured" attribute of maps into "Supported".

Make a "Custom" server-type that supports all game-modes and randomizes across all "supported" maps. "Featured" maps are used for the core official map switcher.
+0 / -0
At least for 1v1, if you take my list on the wiki, add Vittra, Avalanche, Iced Coffee, Icy Shell, Barren, Obsidian, and Badlands, and remove Desert Needle Small, you'd have a popular list that would probably not have any regular votedowns.

I'm missing a few other popular maps from there, like Zion, Aquatic Divide, Inculta Wet, and Flooded Valley. Those get played, but they would probably get voted out a lot, especially the last 3.
+0 / -0
CArankAdminShadowfury333 you are missing a lot of maps that are not getting downvoted: Quicksilver, Alien Desert, Adamantine Mountain, Desert Cliffs, Dune Patrol, Frozen Planet, Deadlands, Calayo, Battle For Planet XVII(but this one would not fit the official 1v1 maplist imo).
Also there are also less fortunate but still likely to be played: Obsidian, Vittra, Geyser Plains, Into Battle, Lowland Crossing, Drab, Tombstone Desert(its new though so its hard to judge), Iceland, Darkside remake, Fissure.
Aquatic Divide belong to the often played 1v1 maps. Its rarely skipped from what i have seen. Zion, Rapids, Tangled Isismus, Colagulation Marsh, are often skipped. Isis Delta (wich is hated by everybody from what i know) is almost always skipped and Flooded valley too.

It would be very cool if there could be made a tool wich monitors how often are maps skipped/chosen (without forcestart) in official 1v1 rooms. This could help adjust the likenes that certain map will be chosen with !map (now from what i know it is done manually).
+0 / -0


10 years ago
Calayo is one of the maps that could benefit from the lava shader.
+0 / -0


10 years ago
Orfelius: okay, I wasn't sure if those maps were that popular or well-liked. They show up, but not as frequently as the maps I confidently listed as safe from !map.
+0 / -0

10 years ago
I have wanted to do a slight map pool cleanup for ages and now seems like a decent time. I'll comment on some of the less popular featured and 1v1 tagged maps and suggest unfeaturing or untagging depending on the map. If no objections are made I'll just follow through with my plan.
+3 / -0

10 years ago
Don't forget to use the star ratings. Aggressively using the star ratings might also help determine which maps should be in or out.
+0 / -0


10 years ago
I would like another tier of featuredness. Currently the featured maps are those that technically work and do not break gameplay. Featured is similar to "this map has been tested and it works decently". It means that the map works but may not be universally liked. I think this is a useful tag to have because there are a lot of maps that are either broken or outdated.

Some players may want to branch out beyond the small map rotation which we are discussing. They should be able to find maps which have been shown to play well but did not make it into the featured pool. Perhaps using the star rating is sufficient for this or an explicit second tier of maps could be added.
+1 / -0


10 years ago
An "Official" or "Ladder" map tier seems appropriate here. These would be the ones that the matchmaker would automatically pick, and would get rotated out and replaced to keep the matchmaking pool fresh.
+0 / -0


10 years ago
I think "Featured" is a good term for the top tier maps. The second tier could be "Official".
+1 / -0
I think un-featuring maps that work is destructive because it took a lot of time to check all these maps and it’s hard to find them in the massive list of unplayable maps.

Adding a "Featured" and second tier "Official" maps would be better.

Also many unplayable maps have 5 stars.
+2 / -0


10 years ago
We can kinda hack that right now by featuring but not tagging, but that's really hacky. Would work for rooms, but would make map searching by recommended gametype really hard.
+0 / -0

10 years ago
Again, I think the best term would be to reclassify all current "featured" maps as "supported" and use a "featured" tags for the actual cream of the crop.
+1 / -0
10 years ago
Top tier can have gold star second tier silver star.
+1 / -0


10 years ago
Not a bad idea to communicate visually if people choose to browse map list manually, but as I said, only the top tier maps should be on matchmaking when using "!map". "!map MapName" should work for any supported (to use CArankPxtl's terms) map, "!map" should only work for the featured/top-tier ones.
+0 / -0


10 years ago
There should still be a command which changes the host to any map you name. This would be used for introducing or testing new maps.
+1 / -0
I think it is important to retain some command for choosing a random "supported" map as well. I might not want to play on, say, Sapphire Shores Dry regularly, and I probably wouldn't deliberately choose to play on it at any point, but I'd like to have some mechanism for it to pop up occasionally.
+0 / -0
Good points, especially since using "!map MapName" is still necessary to get the maps on the server properly in the first place.

Maybe "!map" alone would be featured maps only, something like "!mapany" would select from any supported map, and "!map MapName" would select the specific map, unless the name is incomplete, then select as it does now (which IIRC restricts to what would become known as supported maps).

Also, perhaps the "Maps" button should have a dropdown listing all of the featured maps (since there would be only 12 or so), with an option below all that to go to the maps page (with a separator between this option and the short list).
+0 / -0
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