OP drones need to be nerfed...watching funnelweb spam meta these days is really starting to get boring.
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Solution: make ultimatums, nukes, tactical missle silos, inflitrators dgun coms and most importantly dont play damn FFA... Seriously very few team games escalate to the level of "lets spam funnel!!!"
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Ultimatum gets decloaked by drones. Infiltrators don't disable drones, thus are instagibbed by them and not reusable. Nuke and AA-spam might work though. Has anybody tried Chainsaw vs Funnelweb? 225 dps vs Funnelwebs 100 shieldregen (+ Drones). On drones: If I understand the Funnelweb drone defs right then Funnel spawns up to (430/15) + 2*(180/10) = 64.666 HP worth of drones per second. That's comparable to a Shieldbot lab spamming Dirtbags at 32% of its buildpower. Actually I think its a bit less cause only 2 out of the 3 spawnsize things can be active at once. Nevermind, confirmed my earlier estimation via science. Funfact: Sometimes Funnel builds two battledrones at the same time, if I understand the code right it should only build them one by one.
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everyone spams funnels and catapults...
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quote:
everyone spams funnels and catapults... |
I don't thus your argument is invalid. Instead of making threads "OMG NERF THESE THERE ARE SO ANNOYING" you could propose a specific parameter wich you would change the unit. That would be much more helpful. Edit: One qeustion has come to my mind while actually replaying to this thread: Why is Funnelweb in the game anyway? It doesnt serve any real role other than making uber stack of them. While I agree it is an interesting unit and all but still it just serves as uber stackable generalists and as far as I know every unit in ZK must have its role - its one of the design rules of CA/ZK.
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The drones definitely should fly higher. De-cloaking its natural counters (ultimatium / skutle ) should be a no-no.
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Imo: Funnelweb drones could be less accurate.
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any half decent player can tell funnel drones are 2 good.
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   Princey, sorry but when I control it anything suddenly becomes 2 good. Can't nerf everything just because of that, honk! More serious: Buff strengths, nerf weaknesses! Drones decloaking stuff can be a strength, it's unique. Their accuracy are a strength too, but less unique so doesn't have to stay. Anyway, what is Funnelwebs weakness? If you answer this question, then we know what to nerf.
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Current funnelweb weaknesses: it's partially-disarmed by anti-air. Obvious extension of that: make it more easily or more completely disarmed by anti-air. Slower rebuild of drones, lower drone health, etc.
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Orfelius that's a pretty pedantic post, obviously he wasn't be literal when he said "everyone" and he did specify a parameter for it to be changed: "OP drones need to be nerfed" I think Funnelweb has been the strongest strider since it was introduced, it's too well-rounded and hard to kill, it's a perfect support unit for the rest of the army and makes it possible to slow-push the enemy frontline + break through porc which is arguably the most effective way to end a long team game. That being said, I don't know if I would want to see it nerfed because it's important to have something which is capable to putting an end to stupidly long games. Although I will admit, 4.5k metal cost is maybe a bit cheap considering what it is capable of. For comparison; bantha is 11.5k, big bertha is 5k. I don't think it needs a nerf but I wouldn't object to the price being raised to 5k. Also, it should be pointed out that it's not op in 1v1, only in clusterfuck team games.
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Nerf drone health, replace pew pew with 30bp of nanopower. Pure support strider, critical to helping other striders with anti-cloak screening and repair, but helpless if attacked by a good cluster of AA.
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quote:
More serious: Buff strengths, nerf weaknesses! Drones decloaking stuff can be a strength, it's unique. Their accuracy are a strength too, but less unique so doesn't have to stay. Anyway, what is Funnelwebs weakness? If you answer this question, then we know what to nerf.
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sometimes this is the wrong way. funnelweb had a real weapon some time ago, you surely remember. i said this is bullshit when it was removed in favor of the drones, the devs said "keep strength, nerf weaknesses" and so the drones stayed and we are where we are now. ofc that is silly because drones are anti everything, but the gauss gun was not - including but not limited to cloakers. so thats really not its 1 strength it gets from having the drones, its just a side effect, and an op one at that. also an incredibly random one, the movement of the drones eventually decides wether or not you will be able to take out the funnel with your ulti/etc, not anyones skill.
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Perhaps making the drones entrirely blind so that they could only attack stuff that is already seen by another unit, and could no longer decloak counterplay?
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Why not just remove one shield, remove one set of drones, put back the gauss weapon (the short ranged one), make the drones fly higher, and call it a day? Funnels would then not stack as well as they do now, removes the really finicky weapon (which might as well not exist), and fixes issue #399 on github.
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Funnels are very weak by themselves, if you neutralize the drones. Few razors or several swifts can render a funnelweb useless: see the last 1v1 tournament bronze match. As for countering mass funnels - spam catapults. @Shamanpluk, I almost fully agree with your proposed changes: 1. Make funnelweb less puny by itself - bring back gauss (less powerful? less rangy?) 2. Remove second shield, but make first one equally stronger. 3. Make cloaked assassins like ultimatum less detectable by drones All in all, funnelweb OP problem is exaggerated, funnelweb's golden age has long gone.
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quote:
Orfelius that's a pretty pedantic post, obviously he wasn't be literal when he said "everyone" and he did specify a parameter for it to be changed: "OP drones need to be nerfed" |
Pedantic as what? How can you tell what she meant? My guess is as good as yours! Saying OP this, OP that is not an elaborate way to indicate that a unit needs "fixing". quote:
Nerf drone health, replace pew pew with 30bp of nanopower. Pure support strider, critical to helping other striders with anti-cloak screening and repair, but helpless if attacked by a good cluster of AA. |
This is what I meant. You have solid specific proposition not "Nerf this please" message :) I sort of agree with @Shamanpluk statements and the idea of making Funnelweb a repair unit - maby add area repair instead of drones altogether? Super heavy repairing unit is not something that has been done in ZK already.
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"Give funnel BP": yeah good idea 'cause we don't have enough cheese with builderspam, turret creep and incombat terraform already. Now we gotta give that ability to an allterrain 11k HP strider with a giant shield and drones. Look, I even found a Wikipedia entry for Spider Cheese.
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My own pet reimagining of the Funnelweb was: 1) A directional-siege-support unit. Powerful in a fixed direction, but slow-turning and defenseless from the sides. 2) Directional heavy gauss guns 3) No drones 4) A directional sustained-damage slowing-or-disarming possibly-placeholding area-of-effect D-gun to do nasty things to clumps of units directly in front of its hate train, and possibly disable porc. I actually did implement this in my local copy but i was not sufficiently happy with it, and then the drones happened. Drones being accurate is not unique to drones or to funnelweb. Plenty of other striders have accurate all-aspect fire. Drones are special in having strange and liberal vantage points, so i would change drones to have non-hitscan weapons. Kind of flying nocost rockos instead of flying nocost moderators. And yes their altitudes should be increased.
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