Anyone think current sea battles are boring? I almost cant imagine starting as ships now, maybe only for first 7 min then switch to amphibs.
+0 / -0
|
|
|
i agree. imo the clam rez ability should be removed or severly nerfed, although its very cool it makes the whole thing very 1-dimensional. On the flipside, amphibs general underwater performance could be buffed to be on par with ships without rez. Another option that was also mentioned before was the introduction of a dedicated underwater bomber (with ae), which i think would be great. Right now the only way to attack amphibs with air is precision bombers and thats not really effective, actually not effective at all against swarms of clams and scallops. Compared to the situation on land, where a suicidal air attack could at least cause severage damage and maybe even make cost, suiciding your 20 precision bombers into the amphib hordes will typically achieve nothing as they just rez it all up :)
+0 / -0
|
Rez is okay I think, whats not okay is that there is no good underwater units which are not in amphibs, lets face it ship submarines are total crap and serpents not very effective(why serpent cant have AOE?). Now if you didint won with ships against amhibs in first 10 mins you probably never will. And why you buff amphibs even more? They are already very OP considering they can move on 3+1 surfaces (land, hilly land, water (some), underwater) considering hovers has 2 and ships 1+1. Grizzly is even more OP in sea than on land, it just shots goes down and missiles doesnt hit it. It really doesnt matter that scaloop is not that good in stats, because even if it doesnt make cost it is rezzed back + always some hunters dies also hunters can be attacked with air and with hovers they are simply not good enough to be normal counter for amphibs and they must be really OP, currently only one effective scallop + rez army counter is more scaloops or yesterday I saw nuke... then pushing direction changed again with our undead army... BOORING where gone all those warlords and so on? there is simply no need of them unless you totaly control sea.
+0 / -0
|
No need to create a new bomber, Black Dawn fits that role perfectly, even its atk looks like something that should go UW too, and it have ae/AoE. Gunships need some love too, how only planes should be able to atk UW units? And if sea AA do not get nerfed neither planes or gunships will work, all sea AA is OP, that how Air never had importance in sea battles.
+0 / -0
|
units balls. get fire bomber to hit also AOE underwater...or somesthing with AOE just do something. or a unit with a small aura (like personal shield), which makes torpedos loose its target or turn or explode or stuff... rez ability. anyway, the rez ability is too powerfull. reduce buildpower or remove ability from com's totally. it makes them too powerfull. or give it at 1/6 bp of its current state to every con. or to no con and a specialized extra unit, so its similar to dominatrix...
+0 / -0
|
Fire bomber is the worse, less fit unit, to that role, fire does not work UW (changed some time ago in case you still do not know), and again is a AIR unit.
+0 / -0
|
what about making licho and/or krow hit underwater targets? licho is already quite good at killing halfway submerged amphibs, why not make his blast radius extends below surface. fire bombers would work to but its kinda unrealistic :) what about making emp bombers hit underwater?
+0 / -0
|
then we need an acid bomber... just replace napalm with acid and add a toggle button. No need for new model.
+0 / -0
|
Strikeout amph regen, give hunter leveler-ish aoe. What else needed? Oh, switch crusader depth charges for strictly UW targets and also splash.
+0 / -0
|
I've been saying that since amph came out.
+0 / -0
|
Current sea battles suck completely. Almost all sea battles I played recently turned into scallop ball + clam spam + torpedo launcher spam + sniper subs. Optionally shields + razor kisses to counter sniper subs. Even when players originally started ships it still was turning into the above. Some issues I see: - scallop is obviously OP with its regeneration and stackability. - hunters (torpedo ships) sux. They may teoretically make cost vs scallops but in real situations they are useless. They don't stack as well as scallops because they are so damn huge. They also die very easily to anything that can hit above ground units, for example enforcer or any hovers. - subs sux even more. They are not cost effective, and can only shoot front which means they are win or complete fail (usually the second) as they can't retreat. - ships have no effective arty to counter serious porc: Destroyer is 700m hammer with more HP. And cant hit scallops. Sniper sub is actually quite good but expensive and can only hit stuff in water so torpedo launchers on terraformed towers easily stop it. And also can be easily stopped by shields. Battleship / Carrier can't hit scallops so is of little use. - ships / hovers have too good AA. This seriously limits air use in water, except for suicide missions. This is one of the major overall problems with ZK sea imho, see NOTA for nice example of ships-planes cooperation.
+0 / -0
|
> - hunters (torpedo ships) sux. They may teoretically make cost vs scallops but in real situations they are useless. They don't stack as well as scallops because they are so damn huge. They also die very easily to anything that can hit above ground units, for example enforcer or any hovers. Or scallops that walk up onto the shore. The problem is that sea has three different types of targets to consider instead of the regular two. Normally, on surface, there's land units and air units. In sea, there's hover/shore units (that can't be harmed by torpedoes), underwater units (that can't be harmed by surface weaponry) and the usual air units. And the naval player? Defenses? They're vulnerable to both surface units and UW units. So by default, they're operating at a massive disadvantage. Then combine the fact that naval units are bulky and clumsy - hard to pack together, snakes have their stupid "fire forward only" behavior, etc. Naval range advantages are counteracted by this clumsiness, making it hard to kite with them. I think we need a coherent idea of how underwater gameplay is supposed to work - is it just another layer of weapon countering like air? Is it about stealth, like Starcraft's cloak that requires special equipment to spot? About bypassing the combat? A part of me wants to remove or nerf 90% of the underwater weaponry and crank up the prices on detectors to make underwater units focus on being a stealth layer rather than an offensive one.
+0 / -0
|
About the Resurrect(Rez) part of the problem, Clam(amp com) could lose the Rez and Mason (light vehi com) could get the Rez, so Mason finally was something "special/unique".
+0 / -0
|
clam cant lose rez simply as that, because sea would be without rez and again only coms could rez. I dont even think that clam rez is that badly OP there is simply no aoe weapons.
+0 / -0
|
we sould just make amph more like BA where they have a very serious UW nerf but on land are on par with hovers.
+0 / -0
|
Did not think about that, now agree with you, forget what i sayed above, and if sea get UW aoe that hard counter amp, amps will need every buffly that them can have to not be 100% useless (in land them are not very good cause of short range)... Just do not like suggestions that completely "ban" UW fight, sea begin 100% flat need air (with still do not have, cause of OP sea AA) and UW units (with still in begin developed causing unbalanced things), and lack more types of guns and units in general (like mines, Capture Ray, emp, etc). Or it will forever be only a more boring version of a 100% flat land map, without diversity in units and plans.
+0 / -0
|
Giving rez to veh puts us back where we started with no-UW rez. That's why Rez was given to the amphibs in the first place - so there would be rez in the water as well as land.
+0 / -0
|
Quote [DOOP]fortaleza 112 minutes ago: quote:
Did not think about that, now agree with you, forget what i sayed above |
+0 / -0
|
Change Hunter to a skirmisher role. Double turn rate, double turret turn rate. Remove torpedo tracking +30% range Give auto-skirm behaviour Now hunter outranges and outruns scallops, in the same way that other skirms outrange and outrun riots. Rez is good. But you can't rez faster than uncatchable hunters can kill you. Lack of tracking means ducks can be fast and jink their shots. Like glaive vs rocko.
+0 / -0
|
