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Lobster, Desolator & Siren suggestions

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DErankJxG
4 years ago
Lobster:
Lobster always continues to fire, happens so often that he fires a 2nd time without being connected to a unit and wasting his shot - or he ends up firing some units somewhere where u didn't want them at all (launching Commander into enemy units, for example).
I think it would be more intuitive if it would stop firing after the first shot/lob.
If you actually happen to want him to continually lob stuff somewhere u can always use repeat order.

I know the problem is that this is a general unit behaviour thing - units continue to attack ground unless given a stop order... but perhaps it could be treated like its a D-attack?
Btw I tested - giving repeat order for D-attacks works. So I think it would be a viable solution.


Desolator:
It has a closed, armored state, same as for example Crab, Lucifer, Razor or Faraday and Gauss.
Lucifer needs 5 seconds to go from closed to ready to fire. Others even less.
Desolator - over 15 seconds.
So in theory u can use closed state to prevent being pwned by artillery etc and then open up when assaults are coming.
But in practice due to 15 sec opening time in its closed state it can be a permanent damage sponge but nothing more - and Gaus does a better job for that (not to mention its 1/4 the cost).
It opens way too slow to react to incoming assaults, even if u see them coming miles away.
It closes way too slow to react to any sort of arty thats not a BB.
So its a near-useless feature as it is.

I would not suggest changing it to same value as Lucifer (5 sec).
That'd be too extreme - cuz imo Desolator is better than Luci. I don't see Lucis make cost that often, but oh my god some of my Desos have made cost... if someone is dumb enough to walk into one without disabling it before, it just massacres assaults.
So perhaps it shouldn't open/close as fast as Lucifer.
But going from +15 sec to 7 sec seems reasonable, then the closed state starts being a bit more useful.


Siren:
Siren fires one 400 dmg missile every 16 sec. A Mex has 400 hp.
Aha, finally a use for that silly missile! Siren, glorious mex-sniper of the seas u say?

Ok, you wouldn't say that - you'd say "gib useful anti-sub weapon plox", but thats another topic and I suppose many people think sea needs a total overhaul anyways - but that doesn't mean minor improvements can't be made now. I have some thoughts on Sirens antisub role, but atm im less certain about them than this thing here about their missiles.

Anyways, heres the point: Often mex will survive siren missile with 0.0 hp! Wtf?! Ur dead, u have 0 hp!
Plz give Siren missile 401 dmg. Or 410 dmg for a semi-round value. It won't make Siren op, I promise! :D

+1 / -0


4 years ago
quote:
I know the problem is that this is a general unit behaviour thing - units continue to attack ground unless given a stop order... but perhaps it could be treated like its a D-attack?
Btw I tested - giving repeat order for D-attacks works. So I think it would be a viable solution.

A fire-once command for Impaler, Lobster and maybe some others (Emissary) could be great. With Impaler, shift-fireonce every mex on the frontline, repeat.

With Lobster, just fireonce to throw once.
+1 / -0

4 years ago
quote:
Anyways, heres the point: Often mex will survive siren missile with 0.0 hp! Wtf?!

Replay?
+0 / -0

4 years ago
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/707171 check comment. Alternatively under a cheat lobby to spawn stuff.

Lobster getting dgun to fire would be a nice qol change. Then I can grab it and a ball of scallops and the scallops won't have a Target set on open water.
+1 / -0
4 years ago
U know what "DPS" stands 4? Damage per SECOND! having such an opeing delay is eough time to kill ur entire defence twice!

So i drive into range, get 4-14 sec dps into the defence while it lost it amor boost cuz its opening and retrat before it fires back! 14 sec dps of units is ALOT!
+1 / -0

DErankJxG
4 years ago
Replay of Siren missile fail: http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/711642?
4:15 - Mex gets oneshot by Siren missile
4:31 - Mex survives with 0.0 HP
Was easier to make test game vs cpu than to search for replay.

And yeah Schneeeule, thats exactly the thing with Desolator - once u closed it its practically dead if u open it upon a attack.
Someone once said that Deso and Luci are "practically invincible" with a bit of micro for opening and closing - but I think he didn't take the massive opening/closing time into account.
What do you guys think would be a reasonable opening/closing time for Desolator, 7 sec too much, too little, just right?


Steel Blue: Hah, yeah that would a good reason to just put it on "D".
Unless someone is lobbing a Paladin I don't see any problems with that coming up... and Palas are very rarely lobbed.
+0 / -0

4 years ago
I used to rush Annihilator in front of enemy base, then the dev add Energy grid requirement; later I built 1 fusion in middle and energy pylon to link another fusion to play with Lucifer; then shieldbot come to reality, Badger invented. Ooops, I don't see lucifer nowadays.
+0 / -0

4 years ago
Closed desolator is just a glorified wall.
A strong as all hell glorified wall but still just a wall, as said Gauss does the job of a snapping turtle much much better.
+0 / -0

4 years ago
quote:
Often mex will survive siren missile with 0.0 hp! Wtf?! Ur dead, u have 0 hp!

Döne. https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/commit/2f689b830f834e8ccf2da3fa2a02cc71209eded2
+2 / -0