Recluses

I think they are slightly OP. Their missiles can lead very well(even though they dont home in) and can beat raiders(gliaves and bandits) easily. They should have a moderate health reduction or less accurate leading with their weapons.

They take ages to reload and sometimes a whole salvo misses.
(esp fast moving stuff)
Per enemy recluse you get 5 glaives, 3 scorcher or 3.75 bandit which should be enough.
When you let them grow to become a deathball then there is a deathball. But many units do that. (lol shields)
They also have slow speed.

I've always thought the recluse and rogue should swap projectile behavior. Rogue is in the lab based on deathballs, and the recluse has a death ball weapon. Rogues weapon would have better synergy with a stunner since its accurate but slow

Recluses are OP
If you use shields!!!

Roach can pwn, but recluse targets the point where roach will be when the missiles arrive, so you need good micro -> random hits or fails of 160m units are bad.

Rogues have the range, but not the required accuracy.

Recluses to 3 times the dps against shields as big shields can reload - don't forget the recharge costs here!

They are designed to miss, but they can't miss shields and Felon also got a lower range.

To make the situation even worse, Venoms don't die to Roaches, because they can't kill Roaches - they can even interrupt the self-d for 7 seconds after the last hit.

accuracy:
sometimes they hit, sometimes they miss.
It is physics and usually seen as the strong point of spring/zK.
How can you miss a shield, they are giant bubbles ;)


/*Recluses to 3 times the dps against shields as big shields can reload*/
Still, one Recluse takes like 6 salvos until a missile gets through the shield of ONE Thug. (due to low dps) Basically that means the Recluse hits 6 times (if it even does) and the Thug is still at full health.
(Thug: 180m, Recluse: 300m, so it can be almost 2v1)

/*To make the situation even worse, Venoms don't die to Roaches, because they can't kill Roaches*/
I tested, Roach kills a Venom even from distance. (about solar-sized distance can be between them)

I think biggest advantages of shields vs spiders are:
-shield cons are better (shielded, can repair AND charge shields of army, spider cons are just expensive and slow)
-spiders have nothing to chase after small, fast units that run around in the windfarm (eg Bandits)

modstat loves them, but I've never had trouble with them. Like most skirmishers, they are only effective if you either a) sit there and take it or b) try to kill the skirmishers.

If you just cruise past and attack their eco, skirmishers are terrible at interception. they die horribly to light veh and tanks on flats.

I screen my shield ball with BT - LOL (Avatar)

The problem is, that the enemy only have to use fleas to decloak your roaches (1 flea makes 8 times cost!!!)

If you have bandits in front of your roaches, the enemy know where they are.

What do you do if the enemy uses Venoms+Cudgels?
One Roach neither kill a cudgel, nor make cost (equal - the player who get the reclaim win)
Bandits vs Cudgels, AND have a line of Roaches == Crabe

Once sure, you can use eraser, but eraser, eco(to power it) + 2-3 roaches are 1600m == Crabe
The enemy uses 1 Crabe and decloaks your stuff with a stream of fleas.

And you can't even use Rakeeter, because a well screened crabe neither need curling nor get 1-shotted (move on repeat?).
Also If you stun a crabe, you have to kill it somehow (A curled crabe with roaches? The wreck decides, hope that they don't die too often to random recluse hits.)

Once the enemy has about 10 recluses it is a real pain to find a way around the fleas, the cudgel screen, the crabe-fire-support and finally venoms.

If you have enough to break the screening, the Roaches can blow up your own stuff too - dirtboxes don't count, because AOE hits roaches anyway :P

Last sentence> "They are- if you attack his army where he wants it with a similar army metal cost/comp (unclear) and let him get the wrecks (/unclear)."

Do you mean:
* OP if : attacking + get wrecks - even if the enemy has perfect skill (what to build, how to not waste)
* Not OP if : you defending in a territory you choose with (Again with equal costs) and get wrecks.
* UP if : defending with equal metal and perfect skill, but not being able to secure wreckages.
* Not UP if : you are attacking his territory and can't secure wrecks.

I agree on that, but if you use terraform-anti-pathing-walls to block Roaches + use statics, you are effectively suppressing his most-op unit : Roach with speed=4, which is the only speedy AOE-and-chase unit of this factory.

_____
Finally, I think whenever someone get about 20% more apm, 1 second faster reaction times, expect the other one's moves, he wins shields vs spiders.

If you are save from Roaches (fleas, defenders on spikes), dirt can't trap your crabe long enough / get intercepted by Venoms, you lagg your best 2 units.

Shields are designed to group together, spiders to be more effective vs groups, because spy works vs single targets, Rogues don't hit spiders, but spiders Rogues+Outlaws behind.

A big problem when you use swarms of light units is that Recluse is designed to miss 2/3 times vs raiders, 1/3 times vs the rest, but almost ever hit shield bots, beacause these are slow and bulked.

Finally, you need 1 big shield against Crabe - and this drains nearly constantly 19e/s - 600m-fusion to power it + 480m cost to be recharge the dps of 1 Recluse is a big disadvantage.

this talk of shieldbots being useless VS spiders is stupid.

correct application of dirtbags, thugs, outlaws and felons will get the job done, and if you can sneak a single roach through or get a spiderball to walk into one its pretty much gg

Well in that case a firewalker just rapes such thing in one shot=)