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I need your opinion

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48 days ago
Hello people, I am THE Brofessional and and I've got 2 important questions to all of us zero-k fans and lobpot enthusiasts.

What makes you want to join the 16v16 big lobpot? Why do you find such big games appealing, and why aren't you playing small teams?

Don't get me wrong - I do like the pot and the clusterfuck. I find it to be quite cozy and relaxing since there is so many players. However - these games... I think everybody has to admit, especially nowadays, they are rough. Rough, generic and boring. It's all arty spam and heavy unit spam. Hoping your blue rank teammate will hold the frontline while you build a paladin. Some good games happen there and then but it's all down to the balancer which is a hit and miss.

I've played these games since 4 and I've never felt so useless like on these big teams... Apart from trying to hold the line there is nothing a good player can do beyond hoping their teammates made the right choice OR getting obliterated.

I'm not saying "stop playing big teams" but I would like to tell you - this game as a RTS is very beautiful and one of its kind, and you should play some 1v1s or small teams and really explore the possibilities.

And I still want to hear what your feelings are like towards the 16v16
+7 / -0

48 days ago
Lob-Pot is titled "casual" for a reason: Lobs are lazy and want a relaxed time. That's what the big pot is for. Most players I observe play below their mm skill, maybe try some stuff, have fun morphing their coms, etc. That is also what I do most of the time when playing casual.
A good player can certainly make a big difference in a team game though (provided he is not trolling). Yesterday EErankAdminAnarchid was almost single-handedly holding one third of the front, supporting another third and even pushing the opponents back at a point where the other team had been holding most of the map for a while...

Personally, I feel too lazy to really focus when playing big games. The small amount of income makes it feel somewhat tedious to actually carry out plans. Coordinating in voice-com (teamspeak / discord) with a clanmate helps a lot to improve the experience.
+6 / -0
48 days ago
Same reason as DErankbhaktivedanta. If I play 1v1, I feel like I have to concentrate a lot, plus there is this stress that everything is ranked and you do not want to lose your rank, even though at my level rank is just not important at all (but still, you do not want to lose it). Sure, you can set up some unranked room in the lobby and wait for someone to join, but who does it. And most importantly, I play the game in the evening only to relax, and relax == building big mech and heroically coming to save failing front, which is failing due to my absense in the early game. I rarely join games with less than 22 players, because even the amount of focus required for 11 v 11 is too much for me.
This sounds super lazy, but hey, it is what it is. I play to relax. Zero-K is beautiful because both people who play it super competetively and people like me enjoy it.
+5 / -0
GBrankBrofessional

quote:
I find it to be quite cozy and relaxing since there is so many players.

quote:
I think everybody has to admit, especially nowadays, they are rough. Rough, generic and boring.


So what now?

As said in the other thread, play the right maps and you will not see that much arty/pork-spam: Inculta, Valiant Saltscape.

+0 / -0
quote:
And most importantly, I play the game in the evening only to relax, and relax == building big mech and heroically coming to save failing front, which is failing due to my absense in the early game.

...

Zero-K is beautiful because both people who play it super competetively and people like me enjoy it.

You don't have to play the game "super competitively" to find the people who perpetually sit at the back working on vanity projects pretty tiresome.
+4 / -1
quote:
You don't have to play the game "super competitively" to find the people who perpetually sit at the back working on vanity projects pretty tiresome.

I agree on that, but that is not an exclusive problem of clusterfuck.
+0 / -0

47 days ago
quote:
Apart from trying to hold the line there is nothing a good player can do beyond hoping their teammates made the right choice OR getting obliterated.


When you come play in clan and start cooperate then this is another level of game. Yes o played them because i like cooperation also. Especially when i played with Mumblers or DErankChesti or some other players like FIrankKapy and even DErankJummy.
And RUrankFirepluk also had his own different play style.
So there is many options how to play clusters. Starting from holding front, building nuke behind or sup wep, rushing strider or doing cover operations in front/deep in enemy side.
And don't forget about air. Even in 16 vs 16 you can help win game with it.
+2 / -0
quote:
I agree on that, but that is not an exclusive problem of clusterfuck.

It is very difficult to find yourself matched with or against such a person in matchmaker :)
+0 / -0
47 days ago
i know if im feeling like a less porcy game ill wait until the last moment to place my com. and ill place on a frontline that has too many players and push very hard with reclaim and cheap effective skirms like recluse.. sometimes it will snowball and the enemy cant get porc or arty up in time
+3 / -0
I really enjoy if I succeed in building good porc. Porc is really healthy for internal lobster organs, as it additionally protects them, cooperating with the shell. At the same time, I like to have long-reach shears in form of artillery to break other lobsters' porc shell. It doesn't work all the time, so sometimes I need to get emotional refuge in upgrading my commander and then trying to establish a singularity plant on front to keep me warm. Additionally, I enjoy having shared unit control, because then I don't need to micro my units and I can concentrate on warming my tail at the singu. Lobster life is really beautiful and I don't understand, why some people like all that lonely, cold battles on small, claustrophobic maps. So my opinion is to maintain the current situation, maybe some more porc... (don't take this seriously pls :P)
+5 / -0
the bigger the pot, the more coms to skuttle. [Spoiler]
+3 / -0
47 days ago
thats why I upgrade my com and guard my fromtline singu, so the skuttle dies too, not only the com XDDD
+0 / -0
47 days ago
And I am sure i would be really fun if we had a very diverse map (in height) which is very easily terraformable and a lot of geospots, which would enhance diversity... But not that hilly that the spiders would be OP. Just really easily terraformable. That would be epic... Maybe even slightly smaller one, so the CPUs are not too sick
+1 / -0


47 days ago
I wonder how much of the current porc/arty meta is learned helplessness.

Like, if the other team in group chat unite sufficiently and decide they are all going to push at game start, and they do, does that team basically win almost unopposed?
+2 / -0
Not always, but the last few times I tried to take mid i could even do it alone (+one blitz from CYrankMedlazer. But thats not because my strategy is op, but because 1,5 players are against 10 that all rush stuff.

BUT: StormSiege. Narrow map. Shouldn`t work on Inculta, and way less on CometCatcher.

https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1103066
+1 / -0


47 days ago
if you play a lobpot on a map smaller than 16x16 that's your funeral tbh
+2 / -0

46 days ago
quote:
if you play a lobpot on a map smaller than 16x16 that's your funeral tbh


And when u play lobpot on bigger map its anyway funeral. For CPU.
At least i got now used I7 3770. Still tests needed.
+1 / -0
Fist thing first - lobpot enthusiasts predominantly are not forum participants and those who dwell in forums, from looks of it, are amusing themselves by making up problems where is none and lobbing around it with pseudopolitics :) (what? my honest lurker's opinion...)
For all places i've been in, scarce as they might be, i must point out one tendency - there is always equivalent of what locally called "pot" in some shape or form. ut2k4, part of the "ultimate hardcore shooter" series that i obsessively played for some years, while offering some competitive gametypes, most popular servers were teamgames including vehicular 16vs16 clusters-something, most of which are spam, camping, trashtalk/cheating accusations dramas or attempts to gathers votes to kick some trolls.
[Spoiler]
In fact it was hard to find players for classic 1v1, by far not everyone will find a joy in tryhard-ing, counting 55/25 sec for items and zoning out that shock rifle. Admins of our server (took me years to appreciate their work...) were saying it is fun for everyone ( and i concur here) - every person can find application for that one thing they like to do, be it raw aim skills, map navigation, tactical moves or camping and chatting.
And here some possible answers to question "Why do you find such big games appealing" : less tryhard/less waiting time/easier for balance (ut had no balancing system whatsoever).
I'd argue same true for a FAF: here are gap-and-likes/thermo/a-crater and semi-clusters like wonder, and i will avoid commenting much here, but i would consider those valid equivalents of local "pot". Also i've encountered an idea there somewhere i can only agree with, something like - playerbase is like a pyramid, you have a base where is majority, upper more competetive players and pros at the top, top ones are coming from lower tier so firs of all you have to support very bottom.

I personally would rather join big grey mass, because otherwise i feel like i getting into someone's party i've never been invited in a first place. Apparently most will do. Ofc you can do everything in interest for the elitists, ban n00bz, ban maps, ban all those thing *I* consider bad, but there are examples of where this path will lead. UT was full of elitists, some are even explicitly proclaim "i am an elitist and proud of it" but you can see what state UT now in: dead, dusted and forgotten and latest establishment of the series is in longest pre-alpha season ever. Besides folks probably will join games they want, and play how they want regardles of how many times local elite population will call them lazy scared noobs or throw any other eclectic slanderous barrages. Most will rightfully answer to that "shut up and let me enjoy a game". None have to put up with this, there are other many places to be in, things to do, and other methods to convert your free time into "fun" and, who knows, even with better efficiency rate.
+6 / -0
quote:
What makes you want to join the 16v16 big lobpot? Why do you find such big games appealing, and why aren't you playing small teams?

quote:
Yesterday EErankAdminAnarchid was almost single-handedly holding one third of the front, supporting another third and even pushing the opponents back at a point where the other team had been holding most of the map for a while...

I actually enjoy trying to overcome it
+2 / -0

46 days ago
quote:
The most beautiful moments in games are often the ones where you are being unfairly ganged up on and forced to hold huge swathes of the map for your team while other players are sitting on a dildo in their bases. Its brutal, but if you hold your shit together there is nothing more rewarding than pulling through and feeling like a fucking titan as you swing the whole map with an army that operates like a huge, complex appendage of your will and beats down your opponents.
+4 / -0
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