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Heatray defense?

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3 years ago
I was thinking that there aren't really any cheap defenses that do any kind of fire damage, I mean, there's stardust that has heat, but that doesn't count, and there is desolator with the dual heatrays, but it's super expensive, and most people don't build it for the heatrays. So what if there was a cheaper defense that had a heatray on it so that it could only attack a single target at once, but it could be combined with some interesting techniques using newton on pull, so the units could take max damage cause newtons are pulling them closer, but since the newtons can only pull one thing at a time, and hopefully that wouldn't be too overpowered, but if it was you could make it with not a lot of health. Or maybe it would be better with a flamethrower? but honestly I think that would be more overpowered.

I was also thinking, that if you had a defense like this, what if there was a mode that you could turn on, called overload or something, where it just puts so much power into it's heatray that it does like 20% more damage or something, but it starts hurting itself as well, so if your base is going to be destroyed anyway, then you wouldn't care, but you wouldn't be able to use it 24/7 because your defense would eventually blow up and maybe do a little fire damage to the surrounding buildings.

What does everyone think?
+2 / -0

3 years ago
Or maybe the overload mode would be some sort of toggle form of a d-gun?
+1 / -0
You can terra around a pyro and since it shoots through terra you then have a flame thrower turret.
+2 / -0
This is how I think:

Heatray falls off over range. This implies this turret is a close range turret, since its long range effectiveness is, presumably, very weak.
Thus, it competes with Stardust. Heatray is single target. Thus, it is a short-ranged turret which can only shoot one target.
If it has the same range profile as Stardust, people will make Stardust because that has AoE, and units which like to get close to fire (raiders and assaults) tend to appear in groups, which the heatray, unless it is unbalanced, will have problems dealing with.

Now, it could also compete with Lotus. However, Lotus is cheap, and does not suffer from damage drop off at a distance. So unless this turret is cheap, it will not be worth building over Lotus.
At best, it can deny people rushing in to kill mexes, but Lotus already does that, and a heatray turret is fundamentally the same as Lotus - deal damage to one target, force the enemy to bring more than one raider.

Perhaps this turret is longer-ranged: Then it competes with Stinger. However, Stinger is liked because its immediate damage dissuades going in that area unless the opponent is prepared. A heatray at that distance would not have the same effect. Again, this turret is compared unfavourably to another.

So unless this turret is massively OP, it will suck.

I also say it sucks for a different reason:

Since it is a heatray, this dissuades attempts to rush in (since it deals more damage at close range). Assaults and Raiders (to a lesser extent riots), are affected the most.
This makes best play to use skirmisher and artillery to kill this turret, since rushing in with assaults/raiders will end up with losses, while skirmishers and artillery can harm it with little chance of loss.

Making the turret tanky also makes assaults and raiders less viable, because this gives more time for enemy forces to respond, and the turret time to kill some attacking units. Giving it an armored form just makes artillery and skirmisher a worse answer, and still does not solve the problem of dissuading assaults and raiders. (Like Faraday).

So it directly feeds into Porc-K and Artillery-K by being a turret where rushing it is likely to be unviable in a lot of scenarios (token mobile army, if its cheap enough, heatray forest, strong enough, able to fight multiple assaults, etc).
I despise Porc-K and Artillery-K.
Zero-K needs less things where 'make artillery' is the answer to it.
This turret does not do that.
So a heatray turret sucks as an idea.
+1 / -0
NZrankDouble_Helix_DNA, you have some good points, and the rushing thing is true, but what I was going for is a defense that is not like the other defenses, and I can tell you why they it would be different, it wouldn't compete with stardust because of the exact reason Stardust got the heat nerf, it can't deal with assaults very well. It deals with raiders very well, but not assaults, and this turret could be used against raiders, but that would not be it's primary focus, since it deals damage to one target(huh, I guess it would be good against Jacks, which people are complaining about these days). Lotus does not do more damage the closer something gets, it would be weird if it had as much range as stinger, and I don't think it would be tanky, or have an armored form, I was just thinking it could be used in some interesting combinations with something like Newton, and with overload mode along with some nerfs could make some interesting circumstances.

I do agree with you on the Porc-K think as you call it, and that might be the reason why this is not a good idea. I know there is an answer out there that wouldn't make ZK any more like that, but I have no idea what it is, but I guess it's good that we are having a conversation about it here, so maybe we will find out.

I suppose this could be a pack and unpack unit, but I am not sure if that would be any better.
+1 / -0
Mom, can we have a heatray turret?

No. We already have a heatray turret at home.

Heatray turret at home
+2 / -1
quote:

Mom, can we have a heatray turret?

No. We already have a heatray turret at home.



He means something with only a heatray. And not incredibly expensive.
+2 / -0


3 years ago
It looks like the primary motivation here is the rule of cool, and i have two thoughts:

- Heatrays are meh levels of cool due to the jarring sound.

- That said, a chicken map with some preexisting unique defenses could be a cool way to playtest.
+3 / -0

3 years ago
quote:
t wouldn't compete with stardust because of the exact reason Stardust got the heat nerf, it can't deal with assaults very well. It deals with raiders very well, but not assaults

After the recent nerf, Stardust also deals with raiders very well, but not assaults. In fact, back when there were 2 factions, the other faction's Stardust equivalent was a heatray turret. Of the two, Stardust was kept for a reason.

quote:
this turret could be used against raiders, but that would not be it's primary focus, since it deals damage to one target

One target doesn't matter if you can melt a thing in a fraction of a second due to high DPS and move onto another. See Mace. Actually a heatray is even more raider-focused than Mace because it deals more damage at low range and raiders have lower range than anything else.

quote:
I was just thinking it could be used in some interesting combinations with something like Newton

Newton is unreliable jank. But also you can already use Newton to bring stuff into Stardust range. Keep in mind Stardust also gets slightly better at melee range due to inaccuracy spread.

quote:
and with overload mode along with some nerfs could make some interesting circumstances.

Clickable overload mode sounds annoying, especially since turrets exist partially to reduce attention requirements.
+1 / -0

3 years ago
Those are some extremely good points, thanks a lot!
+1 / -0