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What army comp works against lobbed shieldballs?

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8 months ago
Recently seen a CNrankHistidineStar combo of 2 Lobsters, 8 Thugs, 2 Felons and I can't figure out what army comp might beat it.

It's generally able to go in, kill stuff, get out without taking losses while also being able to beat pretty much anything that isn't pure riots (and even then). It's strategic speed when microd of 95 elmo/s is also quite formidable and it's very forgiving to use (there's almost nothing of similar cost that can kill a noticeably chunk of the ball before it jumps out again).

Amph in particular seems to have an awful time, I've not found any composition of similar metal value that wins in a normal fight. [Yes, in theory a lobbed scallop ball would win a cage match, but in practice the scallops are attrited and skirmed, they need to jump in to force the engagement, which gives the enemy ball time to jump out while ALSO killing some scallops for no losses. A lob scallop ball is also not particularly useful in general due to its tendency to take a lot of damage from the skirms they don't land on and mediocre hp.]

Is the lob shieldball simply the ultimate 1v1 unit combination? With speed, attrition resistance and burst? (A unit with cost 3.3k, jump, 434 range burst and 10k shields (excluding felons) would be utterly insane, but the shields and relatively high hp of the components let it be almost one unit for attrition purposes unless there are snipers)


Aside: vs unlobbed balls as tank I used to think Minotaurs might work, but in practice their slow turret turn speeds and skirming unit AI mean they don't get much dps on target and lose unless you drive them straight into the enemy and babysit them (an extremely risky proposition as you won't be able to retreat them, losing the biggest advantage of the Minotaur).
+2 / -0
8 months ago
Hope they lob themselves into cloaked bombs or make licho. Or tech into shield first.
+1 / -0
8 months ago
I personally like using cloaked stunners and running bombs to run up inside the shields and then go boom. Late game, Using Lances aplenty drains shields pretty fast, along with the stunner arty to keep them down
+0 / -0
8 months ago
+0 / -0
Thugs alone deal (almost) no damage and once the shield is gone theyre fish food.
Felon ins only scary as long as it has its shield and targets weak stuff. No shield, no danger.
Lobster, long reload, needs to be close. As soon as 1 is diarmed and gets left behind his ball is only walking on 1 leg.
+0 / -1

8 months ago
When I played vs HistindineStar on fallendale, amph vs amph, while he teched to shield I got ahead on the map. Then I used my slight advantage to tech to shields to counter while still being ahead. The ball takes a while to build, so the first person to move to shields is probably disadvantaged. There is absolutely nothing amph can do vs shield ball. Grizzly can be lobbed or double lobbed to death very easily.
+0 / -0
8 months ago
Likho can kill all of it with 1 bomb
2 phantoms (plus a cloak con or AA to spot) can kill a felon
Dirtbags for the high health, reducing usable dps
Cloak snitch or imps to kill/paralyze them all
Cloak jacks
2 minotaurs or a cyclops for a felon snipe
A well positioned crab
Tremors if the ball gets too big
EMP missiles for a big ball
Firewalker aiming in the path of the ball
Moderators and jacks(maybe)
Honestly, I think the best counter is to simply flank the ball
+0 / -0

8 months ago
I have had some spotty success by using snitch just in front of my units and trying to bait the jump. Too often the jump is slightly off the snitches and they only do partial damage. but if they lob the ball right onto snitches it is GG for that ball. In general when I do shield vs shield I have come to realise that there is a thing I call 'shield advantage'. Namely whichever ball has the most aspis or thugs regenerating the shields will win. One way to deal with felon-heavy balls is to make a rogue heavy ball which degrades the shield advantage at range and allows you to deal with the felons. Lobster avoids thatscenario by closing the space too quickly for rogue to do its thing. hence placing a couple of snitches down and using the rogue heavy ball into baiting a jump. My micro is so-so. A better player may have more success.
+0 / -0
7 months ago
Assault units might work. Set them to retreat at 30% and keep making a large amount of them.

But honestly the best answer is air switch into Likho. Likho is almost impossible to counter with the shield aa (although the amph aa might). Anyway it will take him some time to get anti air and by that time you should be able to get enough assault units.

Another answer is cloaked bombs. Very effective against sheild balls without outlaw and I am not sure even outlaw can reasonably defend against it.

Sniper is a good answer perhaps not against an area shield but still worth trying.

When playing against shields you should just expand very fast get an eco edge and just switch. Amph simply dosen't have any tricks that can defeat shieldballs.
+1 / -0
7 months ago
There are 2 possibilities:
1. Reset the shield charge of units to zero when they get thrown, just like when being picked up by an air transport.
2. Embrace the shieldlob. Become the shieldlob.
+0 / -0