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ADD NEBULA (atmospheric mothership) to main multiplayer??

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45 hours ago
Watcha guys think?

I'm developing a mod for spaceship height ships but, for me, the Nebula (as an end game unit) is pretty fun and it's sometimes tiring to lug the Paladin around.

https://zero-k.info/mediawiki/Nebula
+1 / -0

45 hours ago
While I agree paladin is clunky as a finisher, nebula echoes old funnelweb issue with shield and drones, but exacerbates them further by giving flying.

The issue with old funnelweb was that the first one didn't feel like that big of a deal, as a couple of razor would hold back a 5k investment. But as the number scaled, the funnelmass would outscale everything and gradually grind the entire opposing team front to back. It was slow and a miserable way to lose where you never get to fight real units.

Nebula would be more expensive yes, but would have effectively no counters once massed. It combines the difficulties of balancing old funnelweb with carriers from starcraft (minus the ongoing cost of replacing interceptors), both of which have precious few counters. It will incentivise a monoculture endgame the moment its viable.
+3 / -0
Having them blow up strong enough to chain could be a partial solution to the massing thing. But they need a role that's better than a kill-everything ship. Strider AA possibly? Flying air repair pad with better reparm speed? Or maybe a support strider for gunships the same way funnels currently support ground clusters? Might be too OP but something specific like that.
+2 / -0
I think the fundamental problem with a flying strider significantly heavier than Krow is that the counters to it are boring. If throwing down a bunch of AA beats it then it's unbuildable. (Particularly thinking of the situation where you scout it early and build an Artemis or something.) If not, it's unbeatable.
+3 / -0

34 hours ago
Nebula's not uncounterable. Throwing 16k metal of Nebula at a spot with 4k metal of mobile AA nearby to deal 500 metal of damage before spending 1500 energy repairing and recharging is not a good deal. And it's quite feasible on the scale of a large Nebula fleet for the opponents to put together a mobile AA group that can wipe out all the drones in one salvo and then blow up a Nebula through all the shields in the next.

The main design problem I see with Nebula is Krow shock but worse. It's one thing to demand a team scrape together 2k metal of AA plus flex to confront a surprise Krow, and another to demand them to come up with 4k metal of long ranged AA with no more notice to confront a Nebula.

A secondary design issue, only a problem when combined with its long range, is that its ability to fly backwards makes it a whole lot more agile than its turn rate would indicate. Instead of spending ten seconds turning around as an airborne pinata, it can spend a couple of seconds decelerating to its drone release point and then speed away faster than most AA can follow, all while altitude and retreat advantage make it risky for the AA to press too close while it's turning.

There's a specific interaction between Nebulas and Artemis where a group of Nebulas finds it profitable to just tank a few missiles on their shields and fall back to sponge shields off a friendly Aegis or two. Given the cost difference I don't think it's a real problem.

+1 / -0
33 hours ago
well thanks guys, gave me a lot to think about... it's a really fun discussion to be had.

i guess then we'd need to make the Nebula very very expensive and maybe add in some speed changes (turn rate, forward speed) if ever

hopefully, one day! perhaps in my mod, I'll experiment on a Nebula that'll make us happy.

I imagine it being needing to be as useless and useful as disco rave party. It's barely used in serious games! Might as well throw in our Nebula friend in there
+2 / -0
11 hours ago
Nebula can be niche for being Air Assault. It draws attention while smaller bombers get through and do damage.
Its guns provide weak anti-ground covering fire, while its D ability can load/unload 6 units
+0 / -0