Is puppy too strong vs cloak ?

I recently discovered a use of puppy in 1v1 that I have yet to see (correct me if I'm wrong).


Its basically just go almost mono puppy once the cloak fac is spotted (or if you know the player u face is most likely a cloak player) and well cloak doesnt really have a counter play against mass puppy.

They could go reaver but it always ends into adding a few mods and its back to square one.
Alot of players were not convinced that it was the case and say "just micro the glaives duh".
But its not very realistic.
The micro is very tedious hell I would even say near perfect, even IF you manage to kill a few puppies the very rare chances u get to so, well its not rewarding at all because the unit is way cheaper than ur glaives.

I made sure to test this for a while before actually writing about it so I don't spread missinfo, I'll send some replays to make my case more solid.

vs skel
https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2474204

vs sub2pew
https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2477235

vs godde
https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2467402

And there's many more with top players.


I honestly don't have a suggestion to make this any different. Any thoughts or well suggestions would be great.

for 1v1 this is the only matchup that seems unfair for cloak in its current state, I have some replays of JayBird and myself doing cloak vs jump I could add if people are interested, in the games he didn't do the puppy start they where pretty fair games. In the 1-2 game he did do the puppy start there was nothing I could do as for the listed reasons. Scythes could be an answer once reaver gets out to mods but that would probably only work 1 or 2 times before the jump player just starts screening. for changes I would say maybe look at speed and range of both units and balance it around that more. in its current state the 15 elmo range difference is basically meaningless as it right on the edge and the micro while possible in say a unit 1v1 does not scale past that point. as for speed on paper glaive is 10 elmos faster, but even with the range and speed glaive can only run directly away, if it tries to wiggle around and play the range it will die for it since turn speed makes the range and speed irrelevant.

Well sadly that doesnt solve much, its like popping out more expensive reavers that also die to mods.
Wider aoe imp sounds terrifying lol

Only thing that makes sense would be lowering puppy attack range

doubling the cost interacts with goo and makes them need longer to replicate for less 100% units and thus less viable as a quick capitalisation on metal fields or if you increase goo rate they could drain a metal field very fast and become a overly powerful metal return to force option.. either way the cost of puppies is directly linked to the power of the unit

The micro to kill puppies with glaives used to be doable, then v1.14.4.0 functionally gave puppies extra range in relevant situations vs glaive (ie when the glaive was running away from the puppy). I think a small range reduction is in order to restore the pre-1.14.4.0 status quo in the matchup.

i feel newton ramp puppies also has potential but i dont know for sure

bump, puppy nerf yep im all for it

puppy counter for cloak
change fac

if we're nerfing puppy for countering cloak then are we also nerfing ronin for countering amph and recluse for countering shields and ogre for countering rovers