| 1 |
Outlaw waves defeat one of its supposed counter classes.
|
1 |
Outlaw waves defeat one of its supposed counter classes.
|
| 2 |
\n
|
2 |
\n
|
| 3 |
There was a lengthy discussion in #zkdev earlier today, and some design-space constraints were agreed on:
|
3 |
There was a lengthy discussion in #zkdev earlier today, and some design-space constraints were agreed on:
|
| 4 |
\n
|
4 |
\n
|
| 5 |
1) That Sumo should have its current hitpoints order of magnitude.
|
5 |
1) That Sumo should have its current hitpoints order of magnitude.
|
| 6 |
2) That Sumo should keep its fun attack jump ability.
|
6 |
2) That Sumo should keep its fun attack jump ability.
|
| 7 |
3) That Sumo should be rioty.
|
7 |
3) That Sumo should be rioty.
|
| 8 |
4) That Sumo should have broad natural classes (skirmishers, antiheavy)
|
8 |
4) That Sumo should have broad natural classes (skirmishers, antiheavy)
|
| 9 |
5) That Sumo should not be a better, heavier jack with more survivability.
|
9 |
5) That Sumo should not be a better, heavier jack with more survivability.
|
| 10 |
6) That Sumo should keep its current weight and factory allegiance.
|
10 |
6) That Sumo should keep its current weight and factory allegiance.
|
| 11 |
7)
That
Sumo
shuold
be
fun.
|
11 |
7)
That
Sumo
should
be
fun.
|
| 12 |
\n
|
12 |
\n
|
| 13 |
Newton Sumo satisfies most of this, but reportedly its gravguns are fairly good against skirmishers.
|
13 |
Newton Sumo satisfies most of this, but reportedly its gravguns are fairly good against skirmishers.
|
| 14 |
\n
|
14 |
\n
|
| 15 |
Outlaw wave Sumo automatically counters antiheavy units.
|
15 |
Outlaw wave Sumo automatically counters antiheavy units.
|
| 16 |
\n
|
16 |
\n
|
| 17 |
It has been argued that a heatray sumo satisfies most of these, but its close-range DPS makes it step significantly on Jack's toes, and the historical heatray Sumo was [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vNkUCjTXJ6A#t=133]pretty good[/url] at killing skirmishers by combining its range and the jump ability. The degree at which it was capable of doing this is debatable, but i think it generated sufficient dislike from people who were not noobs. I like heatray aesthetics more than i like units with non-damaging weapons, but it loses too many points on those.
|
17 |
It has been argued that a heatray sumo satisfies most of these, but its close-range DPS makes it step significantly on Jack's toes, and the historical heatray Sumo was [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vNkUCjTXJ6A#t=133]pretty good[/url] at killing skirmishers by combining its range and the jump ability. The degree at which it was capable of doing this is debatable, but i think it generated sufficient dislike from people who were not noobs. I like heatray aesthetics more than i like units with non-damaging weapons, but it loses too many points on those.
|
| 18 |
\n
|
18 |
\n
|
| 19 |
A damaging Sumo weapon that is neither gravity nor heatray basically has to satisfy those parameters:
|
19 |
A damaging Sumo weapon that is neither gravity nor heatray basically has to satisfy those parameters:
|
| 20 |
\n
|
20 |
\n
|
| 21 |
1) It cannot be effectively combined with jump to kill skirmishers with an efficiency that is higher than an arbitrary low margin, provided competent counterplay by the skirmisher player.
|
21 |
1) It cannot be effectively combined with jump to kill skirmishers with an efficiency that is higher than an arbitrary low margin, provided competent counterplay by the skirmisher player.
|
| 22 |
2) It should not have an excessively short range or have adjacency bonuses that would make its optimal use-case point-blank.
|
22 |
2) It should not have an excessively short range or have adjacency bonuses that would make its optimal use-case point-blank.
|
| 23 |
3) It should be decently effective against things that riots are good against.
|
23 |
3) It should be decently effective against things that riots are good against.
|
| 24 |
\n
|
24 |
\n
|
| 25 |
It seems that it is very hard to design such a weapon because range extension by jump is immensely powerful; and any weapon whose range in combination with jump is sufficiently small to not do nasty things to skirmishers, is basically melee.
|
25 |
It seems that it is very hard to design such a weapon because range extension by jump is immensely powerful; and any weapon whose range in combination with jump is sufficiently small to not do nasty things to skirmishers, is basically melee.
|
|
|
26 |
\n
|
|
|
27 |
If there does not exist a solution in the space defined by those constraints, perhaps some of them could be lifted.
|
New Sumo