| 1 |
[quote]it is hard to know quite what you mean. I think you think you are asking a few questions that look similar but have different implications/nuances. I also get a strong feeling that you're just trying to say "boo artillery" with extra words.[/quote]
|
1 |
[quote]it is hard to know quite what you mean. I think you think you are asking a few questions that look similar but have different implications/nuances. I also get a strong feeling that you're just trying to say "boo artillery" with extra words.[/quote]
|
| 2 |
I'm not someone who needs many excuses to chant "boo artillery #lrfs #artyporc #sonarlives" directly, but this is not what i want from the thread.
|
2 |
I'm not someone who needs many excuses to chant "boo artillery #lrfs #artyporc #sonarlives" directly, but this is not what i want from the thread.
|
| 3 |
\n
|
3 |
\n
|
| 4 |
[quote]You're asking two very different questions depending on whether you wish to talk about the design of artillery or the current balance of artillery[/quote]
|
4 |
[quote]You're asking two very different questions depending on whether you wish to talk about the design of artillery or the current balance of artillery[/quote]
|
| 5 |
I'm actually much more interested in the design part. My prompt for this thread was @Galamesh losing a game vs @dyth68 tanks which was dominated by Emissary and Tremor, and then ranting about wanting to go back to Starcraft because ZK is no longer enjoyable this way, while in Starcraft, cannons are weak; turrets don't shoot ground; and nothing shoots you from three screens away.
|
5 |
I'm actually much more interested in the design part. My prompt for this thread was @Galamesh losing a game vs @dyth68 tanks which was dominated by Emissary and Tremor, and then ranting about wanting to go back to Starcraft because ZK is no longer enjoyable this way, while in Starcraft, cannons are weak; turrets don't shoot ground; and nothing shoots you from three screens away.
|
| 6 |
\n
|
6 |
\n
|
| 7 |
Up until this point my understanding of the design of arty in ZK was more or less this "vanilla model" that there were two reasonably distinct categories:
|
7 |
Up until this point my understanding of the design of arty in ZK was more or less this "vanilla model" that there were two reasonably distinct categories:
|
| 8 |
\n
|
8 |
\n
|
| 9 |
- Units whose main job is to kill porc by abusing the statics' inability to move via greater range.
|
9 |
- Units whose main job is to kill porc by abusing the statics' inability to move via greater range.
|
| 10 |
- Superweapons, whose job is to kill everything, and gaining access to which constitutes a soft win condition.
|
10 |
- Superweapons, whose job is to kill everything, and gaining access to which constitutes a soft win condition.
|
| 11 |
\n
|
11 |
\n
|
| 12 |
[spoiler]The
"less"
part
from
the
"more
or
less"
would
be
a
conceptual
hack
of
reclassifyng
most
of
the
artillery
into
"long-range
fire
supports"
units,
perceived
more
or
less
as
increasingly
oversized
and
longer-ranged
variants
of
Fencer
-
that
is,
generalists
with
long
range
and
low
dps.
|
12 |
[spoiler]The
"less"
part
from
the
"more
or
less"
would
be
a
conceptual
hack
of
reclassifyng
most
of
the
artillery
into
"long-range
fire
support"
units,
perceived
more
or
less
as
increasingly
oversized
and
longer-ranged
variants
of
Fencer
-
that
is,
generalists
with
long
range
and
low
dps.
|
| 13 |
\n
|
13 |
\n
|
| 14 |
This doesn't seem very satisfying, even if it's somewhat practical at "cooking lobsters".
|
14 |
This doesn't seem very satisfying, even if it's somewhat practical at "cooking lobsters".
|
| 15 |
[/spoiler]
|
15 |
[/spoiler]
|
| 16 |
\n
|
16 |
\n
|
| 17 |
But this model seems broken in so many ways that i can't even bother typing them all right now (but i guess i should once i get a bit more time to think and type).
|
17 |
But this model seems broken in so many ways that i can't even bother typing them all right now (but i guess i should once i get a bit more time to think and type).
|
| 18 |
\n
|
18 |
\n
|
| 19 |
So now i want a way to reconceptualize what arty actually means in and for zk. This also includes trying to gauge the community perception of the thing, not the least because i feel like the dissonance between the "vanilla model" and how the game actually plays is expressed rather broadly in the community.
|
19 |
So now i want a way to reconceptualize what arty actually means in and for zk. This also includes trying to gauge the community perception of the thing, not the least because i feel like the dissonance between the "vanilla model" and how the game actually plays is expressed rather broadly in the community.
|
| 20 |
\n
|
20 |
\n
|
| 21 |
On the latter:
|
21 |
On the latter:
|
| 22 |
[spoiler]
|
22 |
[spoiler]
|
| 23 |
Looks like so far most of the hivemind is very object level about what it thinks, and can be grouped into two categories of response:
|
23 |
Looks like so far most of the hivemind is very object level about what it thinks, and can be grouped into two categories of response:
|
| 24 |
- Artyporc is mandatory and is one of, if not the, primary method of escalation in ZK
|
24 |
- Artyporc is mandatory and is one of, if not the, primary method of escalation in ZK
|
| 25 |
- Arty is not invincible and is not a guarantee of victory
|
25 |
- Arty is not invincible and is not a guarantee of victory
|
| 26 |
[/spoiler]
|
26 |
[/spoiler]
|
Has artillery grown to define ZK?