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There are some mechanics in Zero-K that seem to be quite non-intuitive for some stupids, who, unlike me, are failing to see that, for example:
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There are some mechanics in Zero-K that seem to be quite non-intuitive for some stupids, who, unlike me, are failing to see that, for example:
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1: Reclaim yields 40% of cost for wrecks, 20% for debris. Reclaiming alive unit yields 50%.
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1: Reclaim yields 40% of cost for wrecks, 20% for debris. Reclaiming alive unit yields 50%.
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2: Ressurecting wreck with Athena first refills reclaim bar for wreck, if its not full yet.
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2: Ressurecting wreck with Athena first refills reclaim bar for wreck, if its not full yet.
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3: Only case when you can receive full units worth is when you cancel unit production on factory.
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3: Only case when you can receive full units worth is when you cancel unit production on factory.
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4: Cancelling factory production only refunds metal cost, energy cost is not refunded and is lost.
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4: Cancelling factory production only refunds metal cost, energy cost is not refunded and is lost.
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5: Reclaiming unfinished nanoframe seems to be particular case of reclaimiing alive unit and as such, refunds 50% of metal cost.
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5: Reclaiming unfinished nanoframe seems to be particular case of reclaimiing alive unit and as such, refunds 50% of metal cost.
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This implications yield some interesting results: it is very rarely economically viable to cancel any expensive Strider or Superweapon construction by reclaiming its frame, since half your metal will be lost. You need to weigh this disadvantage versus tactical need to make fast switch to more effective unit. Metal steal with Dominatrixes by capturing and then safely reclaiming iinside your base is completely non-viable, since you are presumably better off by heavily exploiting captured unit in combat and then reclaiming. Difference here is only 10%.
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This implications yield some interesting results: it is very rarely economically viable to cancel any expensive Strider or Superweapon construction by reclaiming its frame, since half your metal will be lost. You need to weigh this disadvantage versus tactical need to make fast switch to more effective unit. Metal steal with Dominatrixes by capturing and then safely reclaiming iinside your base is completely non-viable, since you are presumably better off by heavily exploiting captured unit in combat and then reclaiming. Difference here is only 10%.
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Now bear in mind this is all empiric discoveries so i could very well be wrong... I encourage skilled player to fix any mistakes in my observations.
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Now bear in mind this is all empiric discoveries so i could very well be wrong... I encourage skilled player to fix any mistakes in my observations.
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Why create this thread? Some nubster called @Skender recently sweared to God he received full worth (90) when he reclaimed his alive Ronins, which just can't be true. Another reason is that i just never saw any explanation of reclaim mechanics in campaign or in manuals or in wiki, anywhere. I consider this to be serious undoing of devs/admins. Very counter-intuitive for new players.
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Why create this thread? Some nubster called @Skender recently sweared to God he received full worth (90) when he reclaimed his alive Ronins, which just can't be true. Another reason is that i just never saw any explanation of reclaim mechanics in campaign or in manuals or in wiki, anywhere. I consider this to be serious undoing of devs/admins. Very counter-intuitive for new players.
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Edit:
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Edit:
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Ok, so a bit more in-depth about wrecks and debris. When unit OR nanoframe of unit dies it leaves behind a wreck, OR a debris. The main factor behind what it leaves seems to be incoming damage vs HP of a unit. Nanoframe can NOT leave a wreck, only debris.
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Ok, so a bit more in-depth about wrecks and debris. When unit OR nanoframe of unit dies it leaves behind a wreck, OR a debris. The main factor behind what it leaves seems to be incoming damage vs HP of a unit. Nanoframe can NOT leave a wreck, only debris.
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Wrecks, as written in wiki, is worth 40% of unit cost. That's the simple part. Now, when alive unit dies, it usually instantly creates new map feature - wreck itself. As a map feature, wreck has its own HP bar, separate reclaim bar (which contains its metal) and is bound by Zero-K physics, which is sometimes important. When a HP bar of a wreck is depleted, it becomes a debris. It now worth EXACTLY HALF of what was in the debris previously. You could think it now worth 20% of an alive unit but this seems not to be the case when you drain half the reclaim bar of wreck and then damaging it to debris state. Reclaim bar in wrecks seems to be similar in function to building bar in nanoframes under construction: it is essentially metal bar and is separate from HP bar. For example, you can start reclaiming nanoframe, but its HP stays the same. When you damage it to debris though, it has, again 20% of metal that had remained in it, AND, additionally, its wreck becomes exceptionally squishy in terms of HP, which is a thing deserving further pondering.
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Wrecks, as written in wiki, is worth 40% of unit cost. That's the simple part. Now, when alive unit dies, it usually instantly creates new map feature - wreck itself. As a map feature, wreck has its own HP bar, separate reclaim bar (which contains its metal) and is bound by Zero-K physics, which is sometimes important. When a HP bar of a wreck is depleted, it becomes a debris. It now worth EXACTLY HALF of what was in the debris previously. You could think it now worth 20% of an alive unit but this seems not to be the case when you drain half the reclaim bar of wreck and then damaging it to debris state. Reclaim bar in wrecks seems to be similar in function to building bar in nanoframes under construction: it is essentially metal bar and is separate from HP bar. For example, you can start reclaiming nanoframe, but its HP stays the same. When you damage it to debris though, it has, again 20% of metal that had remained in it, AND, additionally, its wreck becomes exceptionally squishy in terms of HP, which is a thing deserving further pondering.
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Now, there are cases when dead unit does not leave a wreck but instead leaves a debris, or leaves nothing at all. This all seems to be effects of sufficiently powerful damage. For example, nuke strike amost always leaves nothing but debris behind, ultimatum attack can wipe out even debris. I wasn't able to calculate exact ratio of damage/HP to bypass wreck state. Another case of wreck-debris transition is when sufficiently heavy (with big mass, which is not metal cost but its own physics parameter, also involved with Newton and Sumo interactions) drives or steps over the wreck. It seems that mass of driving-through unit is pitted against mass of a former unit's wreck, so Cyclops won't be able to reduce to debris Dante's wreck.
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Now, there are cases when dead unit does not leave a wreck but instead leaves a debris, or leaves nothing at all. This all seems to be effects of sufficiently powerful damage. For example, nuke strike amost always leaves nothing but debris behind, ultimatum attack can wipe out even debris. I wasn't able to calculate exact ratio of damage/HP to bypass wreck state. Another case of wreck-debris transition is when sufficiently heavy (with big mass, which is not metal cost but its own physics parameter, also involved with Newton and Sumo interactions) drives or steps over the wreck. It seems that mass of driving-through unit is pitted against mass of a former unit's wreck, so Cyclops won't be able to reduce to debris Dante's wreck.
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Edit 2:
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6: Self-destructing unit with CTRL-D always leaves a debris instead of wreck.
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Another tactical results from what was explained above are denying tactics: when you located a wreck inside enemy's territory, it is in your best interest to either swiftly reclaim it or destroy it so that enemy cant make use of it. AoE attacks are best suited to deal with debris, since it has extremely small hitbox. Wreckage can be destroyed even with single-target attacks. Big Bertha is a good tool for long-range denying.
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What are some good common reclaiming methods? Surely you all saw @Firepluk flying around with Athenas when he rushes a superweapon. Athena, IMO, is one absolute best when it comes to general reclaim. It takes together fast movement, high buildpower, stealth and vast utility capabilities. One downside is its squishiness, so you need to constantly micro it. If you need metal fast, Athena is your best bet.
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Funnelweb's prominent feature is highest buildpower and longest build range. It is usually easier to operate than Athena since AA is none of your concern, and is a best tool for assaulting heavy porced areas.
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Another one was a bit of surprise for me. Recently i saw @GrandorCZ employing great amounts of Welder for frontline support, and I gotta admit, this can be VERY effective. Welder has highest HP pool of all constructors, including even Funnelweb - considering cost of 200 and HP of 2000, with a buildpower of 7.5, AND a decent speed - stats-wise and cost-for-cost Welder is best. Note the HP for metal - same as Dirtbag (60 for 600), Jack (600 for 6000). You can start of small and then snowball your Welders to such a degree that enemy will be simply overwhelmed with buildpower.
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* * *
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Not a few words, huh? And I only scratched a tip of an iceberg. I suppose, we are in need of proper developer to thoroughly explain all these mechanics, also with revealing of inner engine workings, because it is impossible to deduce by simple in-game observation.
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Not a few words, huh? And I only scratched a tip of an iceberg. I suppose, we are in need of proper developer to thoroughly explain all these mechanics, also with revealing of inner engine workings, because it is impossible to deduce by simple in-game observation.
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Reclaim mechanics