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[q] If you think I am demanding "endless emotional stability" you must not have seen me play very much in a while. Sometimes people have to vent and I get that. I do not think it is too much to expect that more experienced players
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[q] If you think I am demanding "endless emotional stability" you must not have seen me play very much in a while. Sometimes people have to vent and I get that. I do not think it is too much to expect that more experienced players
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| 2 |
- are not overly toxic
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- are not overly toxic
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- do not use kickvote against players outside of where it is clearly necessary to prevent abuse [/q]
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- do not use kickvote against players outside of where it is clearly necessary to prevent abuse [/q]
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| 5 |
No, definitely not. I think you are straw-manning me quite a bit. I want to PREVENT SITUATIONS that could potentially lead people to initiate kickvotes and throwing insults AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. Players have all rights to be treated with respect, and that goes for everyone. In return, i don`t think it is too much to expect that the interests of ALL groups are represented and recognised as well.
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No, definitely not. I think you are straw-manning me quite a bit. I want to PREVENT SITUATIONS that could potentially lead people to initiate kickvotes and throwing insults AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. Players have all rights to be treated with respect, and that goes for everyone. In return, i don`t think it is too much to expect that the interests of ALL groups are represented and recognised as well.
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Before the next point, let me stress that this is not a debate about your person. I think you are doing a pretty good job after all.
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Before the next point, let me stress that this is not a debate about your person. I think you are doing a pretty good job after all.
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But you are a mod that has a pile of privileges and authority. I am fully aware that you get a lot of garbage thrown at you, from Keys to Drones to an uncountable number of childish accusations. But you still have the power to kick people if you wanted, because you are one of the few people that decides whereas those kicks were legit or not. All you have to fear is some forum-drama (from the same people every time as much as i can tell) or if you totally overdo it from other mods. You could also just end this discussion every time you wanted by locking the thread.
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But you are a mod that has a pile of privileges and authority. I am fully aware that you get a lot of garbage thrown at you, from Keys to Drones to an uncountable number of childish accusations. But you still have the power to kick people if you wanted, because you are one of the few people that decides whereas those kicks were legit or not. All you have to fear is some forum-drama (from the same people every time as much as i can tell) or if you totally overdo it from other mods. You could also just end this discussion every time you wanted by locking the thread.
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I know your position doesn`t make it easier for you, but you have a different perspective on things than the average clusterfuck-player. Please consider that as well. I stress again that this is not meant as a personal attack, but an encouragement to consider more perspectives.
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I know your position doesn`t make it easier for you, but you have a different perspective on things than the average clusterfuck-player. Please consider that as well. I stress again that this is not meant as a personal attack, but an encouragement to consider more perspectives.
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[q] From passworded rooms to tournaments to matchmaker to !proposebattle to events I think there are a lot of options available for people to play games with a guarantee that their teammates will make a reasonable effort. I am not sure it is a reasonable thing to expect of games in the clusterfuck room. I can't think of any other game I have ever played in which
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[q] From passworded rooms to tournaments to matchmaker to !proposebattle to events I think there are a lot of options available for people to play games with a guarantee that their teammates will make a reasonable effort. I am not sure it is a reasonable thing to expect of games in the clusterfuck room. I can't think of any other game I have ever played in which
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(a) teams were on the order of 12v12 or more and
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(a) teams were on the order of 12v12 or more and
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(b) it was consistently true that in a random pick-up game many of the other people on my team had any idea what they were doing and/or the desire and capability to play in a coordinated way with their team [/q]
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(b) it was consistently true that in a random pick-up game many of the other people on my team had any idea what they were doing and/or the desire and capability to play in a coordinated way with their team [/q]
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1. The usual argument against that, which is not my argument, is that one-room-culture exists.
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1. The usual argument against that, which is not my argument, is that one-room-culture exists.
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2. so you have no interest in anything that could make the situation at least a tiny bit better?
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2. so you have no interest in anything that could make the situation at least a tiny bit better?
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[q] You're the one who described not being able to "solve" the problem as a failure of my "ideology". If you agree that was an unreasonable requirement then we can ignore it and move on. [/q]
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[q] You're the one who described not being able to "solve" the problem as a failure of my "ideology". If you agree that was an unreasonable requirement then we can ignore it and move on. [/q]
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1. I agree that solving is an unreasonable requirement, that was an unlucky choice of words from my side, as was "ideology". Propose a better term, i am still no native speaker. "Strategy"? I also know it`s not an opinion that you exclusively hold in this community. Maybe the way i put it made it sound like a personal attack, if so, sorry.
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1. I agree that solving is an unreasonable requirement, that was an unlucky choice of words from my side, as was "ideology". Propose a better term, i am still no native speaker. "Strategy"? I also know it`s not an opinion that you exclusively hold in this community. Maybe the way i put it made it sound like a personal attack, if so, sorry.
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2. Wouldn`t it still be in the interest of EVERYONE (new, old, good, bad players, you, me) if we could improve the situation?
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2. Wouldn`t it still be in the interest of EVERYONE (new, old, good, bad players, you, me) if we could improve the situation?
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[q] The campaign exists. [/q]
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[q] The campaign exists. [/q]
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| 24 |
So why not at least TRY to make the first few missions a requirement to join team-multiplayer? This has been proposed by many people multiple times already but was always brushed off.
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So why not at least TRY to make the first few missions a requirement to join team-multiplayer? This has been proposed by many people multiple times already but was always brushed off.
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I know your assumption is that this will have a repulsive effect on new players. Many of my points are based on assumptions as well. The only way to find out if those assumptions are correct is to test them. I am absolutely willing to change my opinion on those topics if my assumtions are proven wrong.
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I know your assumption is that this will have a repulsive effect on new players. Many of my points are based on assumptions as well. The only way to find out if those assumptions are correct is to test them. I am absolutely willing to change my opinion on those topics if my assumtions are proven wrong.
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[q] I think that throwing more tutorial stuff in people's faces might potentially have a marginally positive effect but I have other things to spend my time on. [/q]
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[q] I think that throwing more tutorial stuff in people's faces might potentially have a marginally positive effect but I have other things to spend my time on. [/q]
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| 29 |
You don`t need to throw MORE at them, as said. Maybe the first few missions as they exist already are enough.
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You don`t need to throw MORE at them, as said. Maybe the first few missions as they exist already are enough.
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Suggestion: Make a poll like : "Would you be bothered if you had to play the first 5 campaign missions before you can play teams-multiplayer?"
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Suggestion: Make a poll like : "Would you be bothered if you had to play the first 5 campaign missions before you can play teams-multiplayer?"
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If a significant (maybe 60% +) amount of people answers with yes, i would be convinced that i have to search for another way to improve the situation.
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If a significant (maybe 60% +) amount of people answers with yes, i would be convinced that i have to search for another way to improve the situation.
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[q] but I have other things to spend my time on. [/q]
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[q] but I have other things to spend my time on. [/q]
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| 35 |
Yes i am fully aware. Thats why i spend MY time with it. And it would be more encouraging to do so if i wouldn`t get the impression that the people that are responsible for such decisions are not interested in suggestions how to improve the situation, even if they would benefit from them as well.
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Yes i am fully aware. Thats why i spend MY time with it. And it would be more encouraging to do so if i wouldn`t get the impression that the people that are responsible for such decisions are not interested in suggestions how to improve the situation, even if they would benefit from them as well.
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@Anarchid
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@Anarchid
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| 40 |
yes, i do realise that. You are straw-manning me as well. I have said already that getting toxic is generally unacceptable. Does that mean that thoughts about how to change a game-mode "that is liable to make (you) upset" are not viable?
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yes, i do realise that. You are straw-manning me as well. I have said already that getting toxic is generally unacceptable. Does that mean that thoughts about how to change a game-mode "that is liable to make (you) upset" are not viable?
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| 42 |
Again, it is unfair to lay the complete blame to the non-new players as you do. This is going into the same direction as Aquanims polemic rape-comparison.
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Again, it is unfair to lay the complete blame to the non-new players as you do. This is going into the same direction as Aquanims polemic rape-comparison.
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| 44 |
New Players chose to:
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New Players chose to:
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| 46 |
1.
)
play
a
gamemode
where
they
take
responsibility
towards
others.
People
in
a
team
are
DEPENDANT
from
each
other.
That
is
the
huge
difference
to
the
rape-scenario.
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46 |
1.
)
play
a
gamemode
where
they
take
responsibility
towards
others.
People
in
a
team
are
DEPENDANT
from
each
other.
That
is
the
huge
difference
to
the
rape-scenario.
Here,
players
voluntarily
chose
to
put
themself
in
a
situation
where
other
people
depend
on
them.
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| 47 |
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| 48 |
Yes, as you can see this list is not as long as yours. That is because the overall problem is way LESS with them. But in the (insert Aquas better word for "ideology" here) that is the official line of you admins, they have to take NO responsibility towards their team. (other than not being toxic as Aquanim already pointed out, but that is not what it is about mainly.) Expierienced players are asked to carry and endure to the best of their abilities while new players are not asked to even make the smallest, minimum efford they could make within their limited possibilities.
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48 |
Yes, as you can see this list is not as long as yours. That is because the overall problem is way LESS with them. But in the (insert Aquas better word for "ideology" here) that is the official line of you admins, they have to take NO responsibility towards their team. (other than not being toxic as Aquanim already pointed out, but that is not what it is about mainly.) Expierienced players are asked to carry and endure to the best of their abilities while new players are not asked to even make the smallest, minimum efford they could make within their limited possibilities.
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A thread about community management