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Refumble: Striders

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Date Editor Before After
4/8/2026 12:25:26 PMDErankStiofanKingofAwoo before revert after revert
4/8/2026 11:43:11 AMDErankStiofanKingofAwoo before revert after revert
4/7/2026 9:51:15 PMDErankStiofanKingofAwoo before revert after revert
4/7/2026 9:46:56 PMDErankStiofanKingofAwoo before revert after revert
4/7/2026 9:45:43 PMDErankStiofanKingofAwoo before revert after revert
4/7/2026 9:43:33 PMDErankStiofanKingofAwoo before revert after revert
Before After
1 This post talks about the strider changes in my refumble mod, and the goals and ideas that lead to those designs. 1 This post talks about the strider changes in my refumble mod ( boatcarmod) , and the goals and ideas that lead to those designs.
2 \n 2 \n
3 \n 3 \n
4 Striders currently deliver on their weightclass and powerful feel, but most function most effectively as standoff weapons. 4 Striders currently deliver on their weightclass and powerful feel, but most function most effectively as standoff weapons.
5 \n 5 \n
6 The issue with the standoff style of striders is that many units cannot interact with them in a meaningfull or interesting way. 6 The issue with the standoff style of striders is that many units cannot interact with them in a meaningfull or interesting way.
7 The idea was that they could lean a bit more into delivering on their themes/powerfantasy while being more interactable. 7 The idea was that they could lean a bit more into delivering on their themes/powerfantasy while being more interactable.
8 \n 8 \n
9 Ultimatum, scorpion and detriment feel most fleshed out and fun to interact with. Especially scorp and ultimatum have a very clean space of capability. They feel strong when they are advantaged and weak when not. 9 Ultimatum, scorpion and detriment feel most fleshed out and fun to interact with. Especially scorp and ultimatum have a very clean space of capability. They feel strong when they are advantaged and weak when not.
10 -> Ultimatum gets to delete anything it gets close to, but is squishy and swarmable enough once revealed. 10 -> Ultimatum gets to delete anything it gets close to, but is squishy and swarmable enough once revealed.
11 -> Scorpion can't shoot backwards with its 2/3 weapons so is especially troubled when overextended and retreating. 11 -> Scorpion can't shoot backwards with its 2/3 weapons so is especially troubled when overextended and retreating.
12 -> Detriment is so expensive, that many dedicated counters can be cost effective. And it's jump gives it the tools to get in and out of the center of the fighting, where it gets to interact with and be interacted with by essentially all units. 12 -> Detriment is so expensive, that many dedicated counters can be cost effective. And it's jump gives it the tools to get in and out of the center of the fighting, where it gets to interact with and be interacted with by essentially all units.
13 \n 13 \n
14 \n 14 \n
15 The thoughts are as follows. 15 The thoughts are as follows.
16 -> The other strider could/should lean stronger into their theme and into closer range combat to make interacting with them more interesting from both perspectives (user/target). 16 -> The other strider could/should lean stronger into their theme and into closer range combat to make interacting with them more interesting from both perspectives (user/target).
17 -> A good approach could be to reward but not force the closer range combat (more units get to interact at closer ranges). 17 -> A good approach could be to reward but not force the closer range combat (more units get to interact at closer ranges).
18 \n 18 \n
19 Overall, I'm not too attached to the exact numbers of things, it is more the theming and style of function that I want to illustrate and demonstrate in my mod. 19 Overall, I'm not too attached to the exact numbers of things, it is more the theming and style of function that I want to illustrate and demonstrate in my mod.
20 \n 20 \n
21 ---- 21 ----
22 Dante 22 Dante
23 \n 23 \n
24 Dante is I think the most apparent Strider showcasing this sort of issue. 24 Dante is I think the most apparent Strider showcasing this sort of issue.
25 It's arsenal screams close range combat, but it is best used as a standoff platform to burn down armies over time with its dgun's long burntimes. 25 It's arsenal screams close range combat, but it is best used as a standoff platform to burn down armies over time with its dgun's long burntimes.
26 Due to this, Dante puts a soft freeze lighter units on it's front, as there is little point in running into a dante dgun. And by the time you closed the distance, it will have it's dgun again. 26 Due to this, Dante puts a soft freeze lighter units on it's front, as there is little point in running into a dante dgun. And by the time you closed the distance, it will have it's dgun again.
27 In turn the power of Dante's dgun constrains it's powerbudget, to where it cannot be allowed to be tanky or speedy enough to make effective offensive use of it's other weapons. Making dante go to the enemy to do it's damage looks like a design that would create more interesting interactions. 27 In turn the power of Dante's dgun constrains it's powerbudget, to where it cannot be allowed to be tanky or speedy enough to make effective offensive use of it's other weapons. Making dante go to the enemy to do it's damage looks like a design that would create more interesting interactions.
28 \n 28 \n
29 \n 29 \n
30 In an attempt to make Dante a more close range brawling unit, more fitting of it's Riot/Assault typing and frontline combat theme, I tried the following: 30 In an attempt to make Dante a more close range brawling unit, more fitting of it's Riot/Assault typing and frontline combat theme, I tried the following:
31 \n 31 \n
32 Dante becomes both speedier and tankier, to get into combat, survive it a little and get out again. 32 Dante becomes both speedier and tankier, to get into combat, survive it a little and get out again.
33 Health 11000 - > 15000 33 Health 11000 - > 15000
34 Speed 52.5 - > 60 34 Speed 52.5 - > 60
35 Dante drops it's napalm missile barrage in favor of a shorter range napalm grenade burst, that burns the ground after. This tool helps with thining out swarms or burning buildings down. 35 Dante drops it's napalm missile barrage in favor of a shorter range napalm grenade burst, that burns the ground after. This tool helps with thining out swarms or burning buildings down.
36 The Flamer get's dante's extended burnduration of 37 seconds, with the grenades and groundburn using the default burntimes. 36 The Flamer get's dante's extended burnduration of 37 seconds, with the grenades and groundburn using the default burntimes.
37 \n 37 \n
38 In testing, this seems to lead to a partially more exposed but also more powerfull feeling dante. 38 In testing, this seems to lead to a partially more exposed but also more powerfull feeling dante.
39 Lots more units get to shoot at Dante in normal combat, while it gets to use it's speed to get in close and torch enemies with it's other weapons and walk out once it gets too bruised. The Grenades can just barely range the likes of placeholder and such, but I have found them to be a good antibuilding and area denial tool, due to the lingering groundburn. Walk in, throw napalm grenades, retreat. 39 Lots more units get to shoot at Dante in normal combat, while it gets to use it's speed to get in close and torch enemies with it's other weapons and walk out once it gets too bruised. The Grenades can just barely range the likes of placeholder and such, but I have found them to be a good antibuilding and area denial tool, due to the lingering groundburn. Walk in, throw napalm grenades, retreat.
40 Jack is the biggest loser here, being now slower than dante, but it is in a factory with ample lockdown tools to support it. 40 Jack is the biggest loser here, being now slower than dante, but it is in a factory with ample lockdown tools to support it.
41 \n 41 \n
42 ---- 42 ----
43 Merlin 43 Merlin
44 \n 44 \n
45 Merlin does its job decently well, as a sort of counterbattery tool against undefended lanceballs or generalist artillery. 45 Merlin does its job decently well, as a sort of counterbattery tool against undefended lanceballs or generalist artillery.
46 The issue here is interactability. Ideally Merlin stays as far away as it can from any combat, or maybe tries to sneak up to barrage something else further back. But to the most ways you get to interact with merlin are attempts to snipe it or dodgeing it's barrage. This is fine and fun enough, but I think we can push this further. 46 The issue here is interactability. Ideally Merlin stays as far away as it can from any combat, or maybe tries to sneak up to barrage something else further back. But to the most ways you get to interact with merlin are attempts to snipe it or dodgeing it's barrage. This is fine and fun enough, but I think we can push this further.
47 \n 47 \n
48 With the way wobbling rockets and Merlin's inaccuracy scales with distance, there already is an idea of "shotgun" merlin, using close range to minimise spread and dump all missiles into a smaller target area. However Merlin's main weapon is balanced around it's maximum range damage output, and just cannot be too high, which makes base shotgun merlin fall short of viablilty. 48 With the way wobbling rockets and Merlin's inaccuracy scales with distance, there already is an idea of "shotgun" merlin, using close range to minimise spread and dump all missiles into a smaller target area. However Merlin's main weapon is balanced around it's maximum range damage output, and just cannot be too high, which makes base shotgun merlin fall short of viablilty.
49 \n 49 \n
50 Though with that concept in mind I decided to try and give Merlin a higher risk/reward alternative salvo: 50 Though with that concept in mind I decided to try and give Merlin a higher risk/reward alternative salvo:
51 Merlin gains a dgun of shorter range (900 atm) more dangerous rockets, who's reload is linked with it's main weapon. 51 Merlin gains a dgun of shorter range (900 atm) more dangerous rockets, who's reload is linked with it's main weapon.
52 The Dgun Salvo has slower burstrate, so takes longer to shoot all it's 40 Rockets 52 The Dgun Salvo has slower burstrate, so takes longer to shoot all it's 40 Rockets
53 During the salvo, the merlin is imobilised, unable to walk, but able to retarget it's salvo. 53 During the salvo, the merlin is imobilised, unable to walk, but able to retarget it's salvo.
54 \n 54 \n
55 Ideally, this keeps Merlins base usecases intact, while giving it an alternative usecase vs things like stunned targets, or in battlefields that are already deeply entrenched. It both encourages escorting or protecting a merlin to get it's dgun off while providing a unique window of vunerability for the enemy team to take advantage of with missile silo's, other countersniping tools, or with it being so relatively close range and immoble, even other combat units. 55 Ideally, this keeps Merlins base usecases intact, while giving it an alternative usecase vs things like stunned targets, or in battlefields that are already deeply entrenched. It both encourages escorting or protecting a merlin to get it's dgun off while providing a unique window of vunerability for the enemy team to take advantage of with missile silo's, other countersniping tools, or with it being so relatively close range and immoble, even other combat units.
56 \n 56 \n
57 I have not been able to stress test this too much in pvp settings, but seemed relatively well received. 57 I have not been able to stress test this too much in pvp settings, but seemed relatively well received.
58 Units can still try to avoid and dance out of the way of the salvo, but if the merlin has proper support unit keeping the target in place or is facing a static target, it gets to unleash incredible damage. 58 Units can still try to avoid and dance out of the way of the salvo, but if the merlin has proper support unit keeping the target in place or is facing a static target, it gets to unleash incredible damage.
59 \n 59 \n
60 \n 60 \n
61 ---- 61 ----
62 \n 62 \n
63 Scylla 63 Scylla
64 \n 64 \n
65 Scylla is totally fine. It does it's job. But when you're sitting there with your 20 metal draining sub, without any other income in lobpot, it would be nice to be able to do something while waiting on your missiles. 65 Scylla is totally fine. It does it's job. But when you're sitting there with your 20 metal draining sub, without any other income in lobpot, it would be nice to be able to do something while waiting on your missiles.
66 The aim here is again interactability. Something where you can gain a some value by risking your valuable assets without it being necessary for the unit to function. An extra option: 66 The aim here is again interactability. Something where you can gain a some value by risking your valuable assets without it being necessary for the unit to function. An extra option:
67 \n 67 \n
68 Scylla gains a salvo of 2 1050 damage, 800 range torpedoes on a 20 second reload. The torpedoes themselves are pretty slow but track for a long time. 68 Scylla gains a salvo of 2 1050 damage, 800 range torpedoes on a 20 second reload. The torpedoes themselves are pretty slow but track for a long time.
69 You are able to bodyblock them with tankier units, and evade or even redirect them with faster units. 69 You are able to bodyblock them with tankier units, and evade or even redirect them with faster units.
70 \n 70 \n
71 This gives scylla some use in naval combat outside of tacnuke gambling. It is best used to try and countersnipe the longer range envoy(2 salvoes needed) or lance, or to chip away at other units. 71 This gives scylla some use in naval combat outside of tacnuke gambling. It is best used to try and countersnipe the longer range envoy(2 salvoes needed) or lance, or to chip away at other units.
72 \n 72 \n
73 \n 73 \n
74 ---- 74 ----
75 Reef 75 Reef
76 \n 76 \n
77 Reef is fine. Here I want to lean more into aircraft carrier theming and rewarding closer range combat: 77 Reef is fine. Here I want to lean more into aircraft carrier theming and rewarding closer range combat:
78 \n 78 \n
79 Reef becomes a 20 bp constructor. Can build some buildings aswell as a select few planes and gunships. Notably Hercules, for the flying Reef synergy being available with less hoops. 79 Reef becomes a 20 bp constructor. Can build some buildings aswell as a select few planes and gunships. Notably Hercules, for the flying Reef synergy being available with less hoops.
80 Reef's repairpads repair a good bit faster. Making them rearm faster is also an idea, but I've not had a look at how I would do that yet. 80 Reef's repairpads repair a good bit faster. Making them rearm faster is also an idea, but I've not had a look at how I would do that yet.
81 Being a constructor comes with being able to reclaim. Usually there is little reason for Reef to venture close to anything dangerous, but reclaim certainly would be something wortwhile getting in danger for. It also helps cover costs for it's stockpiling missiles. 81 Being a constructor comes with being able to reclaim. Usually there is little reason for Reef to venture close to anything dangerous, but reclaim certainly would be something wortwhile getting in danger for. It also helps cover costs for it's stockpiling missiles.
82 \n 82 \n
83 \n 83 \n
84 The entire list of buildoptions is not set in stone, but the most imporant idea is allowing reef to make some planes and gunships. Ideally not the full roster, or most powerfull units from the air factories. Maybe it shouldnt be able to build defences at all. 84 The entire list of buildoptions is not set in stone, but the most imporant idea is allowing reef to make some planes and gunships. Ideally not the full roster, or most powerfull units from the air factories. Maybe it shouldnt be able to build defences at all.
85 Currently includes all defences, radars,jammers, shields, Raven, phoenix, trident, nimbus herc. 85 Currently includes all defences, radars,jammers, shields, Raven, phoenix, trident, nimbus herc.
86 \n 86 \n
87 Certified Reef enjoyers have enjoyed this reef. It didnt feel too different to go up against, but also didnt see much use of its unit buildoptions (but did of its static), aside form Herc. Maybe specialized Seaplanes could be something there. 87 Certified Reef enjoyers have enjoyed this reef. It didnt feel too different to go up against, but also didnt see much use of its unit buildoptions (but did of its static), aside form Herc. Maybe specialized Seaplanes could be something there.
88 \n 88 \n
89 ---- 89 ----
90 Athena 90 Athena
91 \n 91 \n
92 Athena finds itself in the unique position of being theoretically very good to have, but not having many reasons to be made. It has alot of potential uses, but making it in response to those uses is often too slow. If you have a striderhub, why not make a combat strider. Or in other words, why make something that could be useful, when you could make something that will definetly have use. 92 Athena finds itself in the unique position of being theoretically very good to have, but not having many reasons to be made. It has alot of potential uses, but making it in response to those uses is often too slow. If you have a striderhub, why not make a combat strider. Or in other words, why make something that could be useful, when you could make something that will definetly have use.
93 The things only athena can do in backline inflitration is already pretty good and unique enough to warrant it's existence. 93 The things only athena can do in backline inflitration is already pretty good and unique enough to warrant it's existence.
94 What I would like to bring to it is another unique tool, that makes it useful in frontline combat or as a support tool for armies. 94 What I would like to bring to it is another unique tool, that makes it useful in frontline combat or as a support tool for armies.
95 \n 95 \n
96 In comes the idea of Nanoplague. Weapons that revive wrecks into weakend neutral units, that will fight anyone. 96 In comes the idea of Nanoplague. Weapons that revive wrecks into weakend neutral units, that will fight anyone.
97 \n 97 \n
98 Athena carries 2 varients, one wide aoe Nanoplague canister with slower revive, one small aoe, practically single target nanoplague dart with quicker ressurection. 98 Athena carries 2 varients, one wide aoe Nanoplague canister with slower revive, one small aoe, practically single target nanoplague dart with quicker ressurection.
99 \n 99 \n
100 The applications are maybe not too straight forward, but add interesting depth to many already existing situations and add possibilities for new interesting plays. 100 The applications are maybe not too straight forward, but add interesting depth to many already existing situations and add possibilities for new interesting plays.
101 \n 101 \n
102 Wreck fields are even more important to reclaim quickly, as they present an opportunity to be taken advantage off, and also more risk the bigger they are. 102 Wreck fields are even more important to reclaim quickly, as they present an opportunity to be taken advantage off, and also more risk the bigger they are.
103 Wrecks of your own or enemy units can be turned into a buffer to buy time 103 Wrecks of your own or enemy units can be turned into a buffer to buy time
104 A cloaked athena can follow up on a raiding group and turn the wrecks into a secondary zombie raid. 104 A cloaked athena can follow up on a raiding group and turn the wrecks into a secondary zombie raid.
105 Striders remain a potential hazard even once lost. 105 Striders remain a potential hazard even once lost.
106 (It's also a dominatrix and reef buff, since they can capture neutral units.) 106 (It's also a dominatrix and reef buff, since they can capture neutral units.)
107 \n 107 \n
108 In game this is overall an interesting mechanic and fun to explore in its intended usecases, but still sort of sufferes from being a niche tool requiring a situation or deliberate use. But it is much easier to setup for than normal ressurections, since everyone knows how to make wrecks insdie enemy lines. Quake, the amphtank bomb, and DRP's green shot have Nanoplague aswell in my mod. 108 In game this is overall an interesting mechanic and fun to explore in its intended usecases, but still sort of sufferes from being a niche tool requiring a situation or deliberate use. But it is much easier to setup for than normal ressurections, since everyone knows how to make wrecks insdie enemy lines. Quake, the amphtank bomb, and DRP's green shot have Nanoplague aswell in my mod.
109 \n 109 \n
110 \n 110 \n
111 ---- 111 ----
112 Nebula 112 Nebula
113 \n 113 \n
114 Nebula is my shot at having a sort of aerial support wincondition in contrast to Krow's "throw a brick in your face". 114 Nebula is my shot at having a sort of aerial support wincondition in contrast to Krow's "throw a brick in your face".
115 \n 115 \n
116 Nebula functions as an aerial Siege and Intel platform to cap off an aerial advantage. It is slow enough to where it can be threatened by ground but especially aerial AA. 116 Nebula functions as an aerial Siege and Intel platform to cap off an aerial advantage. It is slow enough to where it can be threatened by ground but especially aerial AA.
117 It comes with some fighter drones, that are good at harrassing undefended targets but still die to dedicated AA defence. 117 It comes with some fighter drones, that are good at harrassing undefended targets but still die to dedicated AA defence.
118 \n 118 \n
119 The main selling point are it's vision range (1000) and cannons. 119 The main selling point are it's vision range (1000) and cannons.
120 With 400 dps of slow kinetic drivers at an effective range of around 800 (ranges vary due to ballistics and height) (razor has 1000 range), Nebula is best used to chip away at structures at relatively safe range, while giving ground units vision of nearby targets. It's projectiles are slow enough to where they are dodgeable by almost any unit, but do still start to hit against clumps or stationary units. 120 With 400 dps of slow kinetic drivers at an effective range of around 800 (ranges vary due to ballistics and height) (razor has 1000 range), Nebula is best used to chip away at structures at relatively safe range, while giving ground units vision of nearby targets. It's projectiles are slow enough to where they are dodgeable by almost any unit, but do still start to hit against clumps or stationary units.
121 \n 121 \n
122 Compared to old nebula, this nebula is cheaper at 4.5k metal, but also doesnt come with a shield and with only 10k health, aswell as the changes above. 122 Compared to old nebula, this nebula is cheaper at 4.5k metal, but also doesnt come with a shield and with only 10k health, aswell as the changes above.
123 \n 123 \n
124 Another idea that could make Nebula, or maybe Reef more interesting is letting them choose between what drones they make. But this is a bit more challenging to implement. 124 Another idea that could make Nebula, or maybe Reef more interesting is letting them choose between what drones they make. But this is a bit more challenging to implement.
125 \n 125 \n
126 \n 126 \n
127 From games played, it seems in a decent state, but it still needs more stresstesting, to work out how exactly it performs. 127 From games played, it seems in a decent state, but it still needs more stresstesting, to work out how exactly it performs.
128 Ideally I want it to end up in a place where it dies to aerial AA but can exist to support ground forces when ground AA gets too massed. 128 Ideally I want it to end up in a place where it dies to aerial AA but can exist to support ground forces when ground AA gets too massed.
129 Paladin and lance are strong counters, as is with any unmanoverable brick. 129 Paladin and lance are strong counters, as is with any unmanoverable brick.
130 \n 130 \n
131 \n 131 \n
132 ---- 132 ----
133 Here some miscelaneous stuff thats still figuring itself out. 133 Here some miscelaneous stuff thats still figuring itself out.
134 \n 134 \n
135 Paladin 135 Paladin
136 I don't know what to do with Paladin really. For it's cost its certainly okay to be at the range it is, but still tends to be used as a big lance. I don't want to really make it a different unit. 136 I don't know what to do with Paladin really. For it's cost its certainly okay to be at the range it is, but still tends to be used as a big lance. I don't want to really make it a different unit.
137 \n 137 \n
138 It got a qol change of tossing one of its missiles while it's dgun is off cooldown, so you needn't spam it to get the dps out, but that may be too strong in attritional battles. 138 It got a qol change of tossing one of its missiles while it's dgun is off cooldown, so you needn't spam it to get the dps out, but that may be too strong in attritional battles.
139 \n 139 \n
140 Squire 140 Squire
141 My take on a downsized paladin, that is more of an assault than skirmisher/artillery. 5k cost, 600 range maximum 20k hp, decent dps, no dgun. Does need to get into combat to deal damage. 141 My take on a downsized paladin, that is more of an assault than skirmisher/artillery. 5k cost, 600 range maximum 20k hp, decent dps, no dgun. Does need to get into combat to deal damage.
142 \n 142 \n
143 Both these are hard to really get a feel for, since testing games of sizes that bring these units out are hard to generate outside of hijacking a lobpot. 143 Both these are hard to really get a feel for, since testing games of sizes that bring these units out are hard to generate outside of hijacking a lobpot.
144 \n 144 \n
145 Shogun goes to 4k cost. It sort of suffers from being in the same area as the best mobile artillery in envoy. I don't have an idea of what yet to do with it, but leaning further into shore bombardment is probably the best idea. 145 Shogun goes to 4k cost. It sort of suffers from being in the same area as the best mobile artillery in envoy. I don't have an idea of what yet to do with it, but leaning further into shore bombardment is probably the best idea.
146 \n 146 \n
147 ---- 147 ----
148 \n 148 \n
149 Thats my thoughts on the matter :P Any thoughts? 149 Thats my thoughts on the matter :P Any thoughts?
150 150