| 1 |
[q] Lobsters by design should be kings of lava maps. [/q]
|
1 |
[q] Lobsters by design should be kings of lava maps. [/q]
|
| 2 |
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|
2 |
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| 3 |
My
hot
take
here
is
that
I
don't
understand
how
insta-death
pits
are
a
thing
in
this
game,
at
least
I
don't
understand
why
they
are
that
popular
with
players.
They
just
make
lob
and
juggle
unreasonably
good
in
my
opinion.
One
cloaker
and
one
lobster
are
potentially
able
to
instantly
kill
a
number
of
paladins
+
some
other
heavies
by
lobbing
them
into
lava
and
I
think
THAT
is
too
much,
especially
because
the
player
on
the
recieving
end
has
no
chance
and
time
to
react.
You
can
dodge
shockleys
by
moving
at
least
and
an
ultimatum
is
likely
to
kill
a
number
of
units,
but
will
likely
die
itself
before
it
kills
all
enemies.
Death
pits
turn
cloaked
lobsters
into
an
ultimatum
with
quite
some
AoE,
and
I
think
if
an
ultimatum
were
able
to
reliably
kill
that
many
units
with
one
hit,
noone
would
think:
"Yeah,
reasonable.
"
To
me,
it
is
hard
to
think
lobsters
are
unproblematic
while
hermits
or
old
dante
totally
are/were
at
the
same
time.
I
get
that
you
love
to
lob
things
to
their
death,
but
aside
from
that
I
personally
don't
see
a
compelling
reason
why
lobsters
should
be
even
able
to
lob
enemy
units.
In
this
regard,
my
stance
is
obviously
quite
extreme,
but
I
am
very
aware
that
it
is
and
runs
contrary
to
most
players
opinion.
|
3 |
My
hot
take
here
is
that
I
don't
understand
how
insta-death
pits
are
a
thing
in
this
game,
at
least
I
don't
understand
why
they
are
that
popular
with
players.
They
just
make
lob
and
juggle
unreasonably
good
in
my
opinion.
One
cloaker
and
one
lobster
are
potentially
able
to
instantly
kill
a
number
of
paladins
+
some
other
heavies
by
lobbing
them
into
lava
and
I
think
THAT
is
too
much,
especially
because
the
player
on
the
recieving
end
has
no
chance
and
time
to
react.
You
can
dodge
shockleys
by
moving
at
least
and
an
ultimatum
is
likely
to
kill
a
number
of
units,
but
will
likely
die
itself
before
it
kills
all
enemies.
Death
pits
turn
cloaked
lobsters
into
an
ultimatum
with
quite
some
AoE,
and
I
think
if
an
ultimatum
were
able
to
reliably
kill
that
many
units
with
one
hit,
noone
would
think:
"Yeah,
reasonable.
"
To
me,
it
is
hard
to
think
of
lobsters
as
unproblematic
while
hermits
or
old
dante
totally
are/were
at
the
same
time.
I
get
that
you
love
to
lob
things
to
their
death,
but
aside
from
that
I
personally
don't
see
a
compelling
reason
why
lobsters
should
be
even
able
to
lob
enemy
units.
In
this
regard,
my
stance
is
obviously
quite
extreme,
but
I
am
very
aware
that
it
is
and
runs
contrary
to
most
players
opinion.
|
| 4 |
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|
4 |
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|
| 5 |
[q] Nerfing it further is likely to just make it into a niche unit without many use cases except throwing units into lava. [/q]
|
5 |
[q] Nerfing it further is likely to just make it into a niche unit without many use cases except throwing units into lava. [/q]
|
| 6 |
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|
6 |
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|
| 7 |
I think this is flat our wrong.
|
7 |
I think this is flat our wrong.
|
| 8 |
-Lobsters main use is still to allow the quite sluggish amphbots to offset their speed-disadvantage and close the gap to enemy units. As far as I remember, that was their main intend, and I agree that this was quite an ingenious solution to the "amph has no arty" problem as well. I see that in TAW all the time.
|
8 |
-Lobsters main use is still to allow the quite sluggish amphbots to offset their speed-disadvantage and close the gap to enemy units. As far as I remember, that was their main intend, and I agree that this was quite an ingenious solution to the "amph has no arty" problem as well. I see that in TAW all the time.
|
| 9 |
- Lobsters are used to ambush things on cliffs and be more mobile in general in otherwise unpassable terrain.
|
9 |
- Lobsters are used to ambush things on cliffs and be more mobile in general in otherwise unpassable terrain.
|
| 10 |
- Lobsters are used to get units out of dire situations, most notably striders that got stunned or overwhelmed.
|
10 |
- Lobsters are used to get units out of dire situations, most notably striders that got stunned or overwhelmed.
|
| 11 |
- Lobsters are used to move ships and with them, shoguns or scyllas, over land. Now, THAT is a niche usecase, but still. It is by far faster in comparison to using transports, albeit not as good if you want to relocate them over larger distances.
|
11 |
- Lobsters are used to move ships and with them, shoguns or scyllas, over land. Now, THAT is a niche usecase, but still. It is by far faster in comparison to using transports, albeit not as good if you want to relocate them over larger distances.
|
| 12 |
So I think that lobster is a very good unit that really does a lot for the amph factory and other units, even if we just look at the usecases that only contain lobbing allied units. Being able to lob enemies goes on top of that, and I have a hard time to think of any other unit that is that versatile and universally useful.
|
12 |
So I think that lobster is a very good unit that really does a lot for the amph factory and other units, even if we just look at the usecases that only contain lobbing allied units. Being able to lob enemies goes on top of that, and I have a hard time to think of any other unit that is that versatile and universally useful.
|
| 13 |
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|
13 |
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|
| 14 |
That is for the main part of thegame, aka ground combat.
|
14 |
That is for the main part of thegame, aka ground combat.
|
| 15 |
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|
15 |
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|
| 16 |
Where I do think lobsters are genuinely, objectively problematic without doubt is in the amph - ships matchup.
|
16 |
Where I do think lobsters are genuinely, objectively problematic without doubt is in the amph - ships matchup.
|
| 17 |
(sorry @aioeieoiao)
|
17 |
(sorry @aioeieoiao)
|
| 18 |
Ships REALLY struggle against lobbed scallop-balls because they don't have the tools to deal with them. This is so severe because it is very easy for the amph player to abduct a number of ships and kill them of mid-air, so that a single encounter can lead to the shiplayer being behind in army value for the rest of the game. The reclaim lands in the amph players hand additionaly.
|
18 |
Ships REALLY struggle against lobbed scallop-balls because they don't have the tools to deal with them. This is so severe because it is very easy for the amph player to abduct a number of ships and kill them of mid-air, so that a single encounter can lead to the shiplayer being behind in army value for the rest of the game. The reclaim lands in the amph players hand additionaly.
|
| 19 |
The ship player has to have support from other factories to survive this.
|
19 |
The ship player has to have support from other factories to survive this.
|
| 20 |
Here is an example: https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2413948 starting at roughly at the 30% mark.
|
20 |
Here is an example: https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/2413948 starting at roughly at the 30% mark.
|
| 21 |
The reason why I as the ship player never engage with the enemy scallop-ball is precisely because of this and I only survived because other players also used lobbed scallops, @mojjj used cloaked claymores and, most notably, at some point @aioeieoiao got a bit too ballsy, killed most of our units, but failed to prevent us getting the reclaim.
|
21 |
The reason why I as the ship player never engage with the enemy scallop-ball is precisely because of this and I only survived because other players also used lobbed scallops, @mojjj used cloaked claymores and, most notably, at some point @aioeieoiao got a bit too ballsy, killed most of our units, but failed to prevent us getting the reclaim.
|
| 22 |
If you want more and better replays, I can dig through my played games, but that will require a lot of time, so I will restrict myself to this one for now.
|
22 |
If you want more and better replays, I can dig through my played games, but that will require a lot of time, so I will restrict myself to this one for now.
|
Multilobbers are unfun to counter