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From [url=http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/9218]the Jumpyfac discussion[/url]:
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From [url=http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/9218]the Jumpyfac discussion[/url]:
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[quote]The Pyro afterburn effect only has a 10% chance to proc per projectile and its total damage is also random (150 - 225). It's somewhat frustrating to have a high-power low-chance random-based ability at low weight - getting a Glaive or a Bandit poked by a Pyro who then jumps away is a lottery whether it starts burning or not and then whether the total damage is enough to kill it or not[/quote]
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[quote]The Pyro afterburn effect only has a 10% chance to proc per projectile and its total damage is also random (150 - 225). It's somewhat frustrating to have a high-power low-chance random-based ability at low weight - getting a Glaive or a Bandit poked by a Pyro who then jumps away is a lottery whether it starts burning or not and then whether the total damage is enough to kill it or not[/quote]
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I'd like to have this remedied by removing the randomness. I attempted to make a patch but didn't realize that Pyro balance is very delicate. My proposed changes were:
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I'd like to have this remedied by removing the randomness. I attempted to make a patch but didn't realize that Pyro balance is very delicate. My proposed changes were:
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[quote]Afterburn:
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[quote]Afterburn:
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Chance: 10% -> 100%
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Chance: 10% -> 100%
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Duration: (random 10.5 - 15) -> 15
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Duration: (random 10.5 - 15) -> 15
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DPS: 15 -> 5
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DPS: 15 -> 5
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Weapon DPS: 50 -> 60 (to compensate for afterburn)[/quote]
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Weapon DPS: 50 -> 60 (to compensate for afterburn)[/quote]
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Reasoning: duration randomness removed in favor of maximum duration because it's needed to keep cloaked units burning (fire is a softcounter to cloak) and DPS change is to make the total damage not finish off any affected light raiders: current 150-225 is quite damaging for a low-chance ability (Bandits who happen to catch fire are left at 10-40% health, while for Glaives it's either they burn to death, or survive and autoregen back to full - leaving it to the randomness is bad). New total damage would be 75. Weapon DPS change is to keep total DPS the same against targets being actively shot at.
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Reasoning: duration randomness removed in favor of maximum duration because it's needed to keep cloaked units burning (fire is a softcounter to cloak) and DPS change is to make the total damage not finish off any affected light raiders: current 150-225 is quite damaging for a low-chance ability (Bandits who happen to catch fire are left at 10-40% health, while for Glaives it's either they burn to death, or survive and autoregen back to full - leaving it to the randomness is bad). New total damage would be 75. Weapon DPS change is to keep total DPS the same against targets being actively shot at.
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Problems pointed out were that Afterburn DPS needs to be consistent among fire units because the mechanic would be unintuitive if some fire was less fiery than others.
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Problems pointed out were that Afterburn DPS needs to be consistent among fire units because the mechanic would be unintuitive if some fire was less fiery than others.
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With 15 DPS (unless Kodachi and Phoenix are also changed) and 100% chance it comes down to tweaking duration, but it might be hard to keep the duration long enough to be good at maintaining decloak and the total damage low enough to be impactful but not guaranteed-death for lighter units - personally I'd go for somewhere between 50 and 100 total damage, so 3-7 seconds duration; 5s for 75.
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With 15 DPS (unless Kodachi and Phoenix are also changed) and 100% chance it comes down to tweaking duration, but it might be hard to keep the duration long enough to be good at maintaining decloak and the total damage low enough to be impactful but not guaranteed-death for lighter units - personally I'd go for somewhere between 50 and 100 total damage, so 3-7 seconds duration; 5s for 75.
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That'd make the current proposal:
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That'd make the current proposal:
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[quote]
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[quote]
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Afterburn:
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Afterburn:
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Chance 10% -> 100%
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Chance 10% -> 100%
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Duration (10.5 - 15) -> 5
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Duration (10.5 - 15) -> 5
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[/quote]
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[/quote]
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Values could be then fine-tuned of course, the main point is to remove the double randomness of chance and duration. Discuss!
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Values could be then fine-tuned of course, the main point is to remove the double randomness of chance and duration. Discuss!
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Edit: the change might have some influence on Pyro's role:
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Better as raider: the additional DPS always kicks in immediately and poked Solars are guaranteed to get increased downtime, reliably helping harrass.
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Worse as riot: Pyros often kill Glaives/Bandits post-mortem or due to a poke because of the large potential afterburn damage (sometimes more than Glaive total HP). With decreased total damage this will no longer happen.
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Afterburn is also soft counter to cloak; no idea whether this is a net loss or gain as the change would make it less powerful (through less duration), but more reliable.
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Pyro afterburn discussion